FT-86 SpeedFactory Catted UEL Header

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by Foobar

That's essentially what the FT86SF Catted UEL Header was designed for - people were asking for a UEL catted header that wouldn't need a tune.

By FT86SF's own admission, as soon as you introduce any other mods to the intake/exhaust, all bets are off and you'll need a tune to avoid issues.

True, people just had different ideas/interpretation that was all.

[Trettiosjuan]

That is not an admission, that is just common sense. Just a tune and exhaust won't remove the dip either, with this header and a proper tune you get that in a civilised set-up that sounds better. If you don't like the limitations of a cat you're obviously looking at the wrong product.

[Drewfellas]

I want to use a catted uel but California laws are so hardcore.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

That is not an admission, that is just common sense. Just a tune and exhaust won't remove the dip either, with this header and a proper tune you get that in a civilised set-up that sounds better. If you don't like the limitations of a cat you're obviously looking at the wrong product.

I'm not referring to performance or torque dip. Jeremy stated in this very thread that the community asked for a catted UEL that worked with a stock car with no tune, and that's what they developed. As soon as you add additional mods, you run into CEL's and codes being thrown. At that point, you'll need to tune specifically for that configuration, and not use a generic stage 2 tune for an uncatted header.

As far as I know, this is the only aftermarket header designed and tested to work perfectly fine on a stock car without a tune.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by Foobar

I'm not referring to performance or torque dip. Jeremy stated in this very thread that the community asked for a catted UEL that worked with a stock car with no tune, and that's what they developed. As soon as you add additional mods, you run into CEL's and codes being thrown. At that point, you'll need to tune specifically for that configuration, and not use a generic stage 2 tune for an uncatted header.

As far as I know, this is the only aftermarket header designed and tested to work perfectly fine on a stock car without a tune.

Thats not entirely true....love the guys at speedfactory, but the ptuning headers also work perfectly on stock tune. I put over 1500 miles on mine with no issues what-so-ever before I finally started tuning with ecutek

then again the ptuning crap is in a whole other league of prices, lol

[Sypher]

Originally Posted by Drewfellas

I want to use a catted uel but California laws are so hardcore.

you can get one. i have one in Cali. you just need to swap back to stock for smogg which you wont have to do for another 4 years or so. also if you are half way handy it only takes about 30-45 min to change out the header

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

What I keep seeing here is that people like Cartman spend quite some money on several harware mods that each of them by themselves warrant a proper tune (spacers, header, full exhaust) or at least in combination with one of the before (intake). But you run them all together without any(!) tune or without getting a proper one, yet still seem it worthwhile to do several dynos. And then if it doesn't work out as expected you blame the header?

I would at first hand blame the lack of a proper tune, there is NO way a stock tune can accomodate for all those mods AND give more power for each of them. It just doesn't exist. And a stage 2 generic tune isn't suitable either if you did any research and problems are to be expected. This isn't new, it has been stated over and again in this thread.

So, please explain how you can spend thousands on hardware and several dynos, and then not spend a few hundreds on a suitable tune?? It's like buying a sniper rifle and not buying scopes and complaining you keep missing your target...

Sorry if I misunderstood your situation but as of now, I really don't understand what you expected.

I'm just gonna post this.

This is a local guy with similar mods to me.

FT86speedfactory catted UEL headers
Fiebruz 3" overpipe and resonated front pipe
Fiebruz power blocks "IMRE" (Intake manifold spacers)
Perrin 2.5" resonated exhaust
Supertek pipe & drop-in filter
HKS intake duct
Ecutek tune (Puma93oct)

Graph shows before and after tuning.



As you can see... the stock header actually has a better tq curve past the dip...




Here's my Dynojet run with a tune... Tune only gained 5hp. We did start with the OFT stg 2 UEL for BPB and got 4HP, then we started adjusting it to better suit the catted heated and managed to gain 1 more HP.

[Foobar]

Originally Posted by s30series

Thats not entirely true....love the guys at speedfactory, but the ptuning headers also work perfectly on stock tune. I put over 1500 miles on mine with no issues what-so-ever before I finally started tuning with ecutek

then again the ptuning crap is in a whole other league of prices, lol

I thought the ptuning headers were non-catted? How can you run that on a stock tune without getting any codes thrown?

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by Cartman

I'm just gonna post this.

This is a local guy with similar mods to me.

FT86speedfactory catted UEL headers
Fiebruz 3" overpipe and resonated front pipe
Fiebruz power blocks "IMRE" (Intake manifold spacers)
Perrin 2.5" resonated exhaust
Supertek pipe & drop-in filter
HKS intake duct
Ecutek tune (Puma93oct)



As you can see... the stock header actually has a better tq curve past the dip...

What is what? Solid with the ft86sf catted header, dashed without? If so, seems the header does as advertised. As for the generally seemingly low numbers with all those mods, don't know what is up there.

Your own graphs look quite odd, something is off. Could be the header or the cat, but it could also be the spacers or just the whole combo of mods. Flow systems can behave unsuspected in certain combinations...

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by Foobar

I thought the ptuning headers were non-catted? How can you run that on a stock tune without getting any codes thrown?

From what I saw before launch, the second O2 sensor sits on one of the runners, similar effect as a spacer.
It's a nice header but leaves the dip.

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

What is what? Solid with the ft86sf catted header, dashed without? If so, seems the header does as advertised. As for the generally seemingly low numbers with all those mods, don't know what is up there.

Your own graphs look quite odd, something is off. Could be the header or the cat, but it could also be the spacers or just the whole combo of mods. Flow systems can behave unsuspected in certain combinations...

Untuned vs tunned. He never did a before dyno with the stock header, sadly. But the dip is clearly there with this header untunned.

But his numbers are far more disappoiting than mine. Where mine did 170 peak HP with 91 octane and stock tune, vs his 93 tuned.

Still have yet to remove the header from my car, but I've decided on just gutting the cat and see what happens. The cat might be as restricting or slightly more restricting than the OEM cat, since I lost power in most places compared to the stock header.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by Foobar

That's essentially what the FT86SF Catted UEL Header was designed for - people were asking for a UEL catted header that wouldn't need a tune.

By FT86SF's own admission, as soon as you introduce any other mods to the intake/exhaust, all bets are off and you'll need a tune to avoid issues.

I have a full 2.5" exhaust after the ft86sf header, stock intake, with OFT Stage 1, and I am 100% certain that performance is improved--even if just slightly--over stock.

Nope, I don't have a dyno chart to back that statement, but I have a friend with a stock BRZ (axleback only, at the time); we switched cars one night and both immediately noticed the difference.

Placebo? Maybe, but unlikely, and I am not one to lie to myself and others to justify money spent on mods. All I know is, I can just give it a bit more throttle in 6th while cruising 70-80mph (~3k RPM) on the freeway and it just pulls with no apparent "torque dip".

Still not over how good it sounds either. Perhaps those who are unsatisfied are probably expecting too much from an N/A setup... there's only so much you can do without boosting it.

[chas3wba0]

Originally Posted by Cartman

This is a local guy with similar mods to me.

FT86speedfactory catted UEL headers
Fiebruz 3" overpipe and resonated front pipe
Fiebruz power blocks "IMRE" (Intake manifold spacers)
Perrin 2.5" resonated exhaust
Supertek pipe & drop-in filter
HKS intake duct
Ecutek tune (Puma93oct)

My internet forum degree in automotive tuning tells me that going from 2.5" to 3" and then back to 2.5" is bad for flow, and would explain his less-than-impressive torque numbers... myth or fact?

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by chas3wba0

My internet forum degree in automotive tuning tells me that going from 2.5" to 3" and then back to 2.5" is bad for flow, and would explain his less-than-impressive torque numbers... myth or fact?

Myth

when I did my dynojet run with tune where I got 186WHP my setup was with the stock catback... basically my car goes from 3" to 2.13"

Still have 6WHP over him on a dynojet.

My current mods are:

K&N Drop in, Fiebruz spacers, FT86SF header, 2.5" OP, 3" Perrin Catted Front pipe, stock CBE.

I have less mods, and a less freeflowing exhaust.


Another thing, I'm betting that if you put a tune on your friends car, the difference you feel will disappear. Hell... even I felt a huge difference between the stock tune and the tuned setup, of course I never ran a tune with the stock header, so tune vs tune is something I haven't tried yet, but I'm pretty confidence I'll feel the same difference I felt when I tuned this header.