Header without a tune

[Koa]

Originally Posted by steve99

Where and how does the ecu store flash history ?? can you supply source of this info?

dealers use techstream can you point out in techstream where the dealer can see flash history info ?? if not how does the dealer detect this flash history ??

it is possible that this count is stored somwhere , but its does not appear to be accessible via dealer techstream software.

I hereby rescind my comment on that count until it can be verified. I could have sworn I read one of the tuner threads in which they confirmed techstream could see if the ECU has been flashed before, even after flashes back to stock roms..

thus the perils of taking info from armchair tuners and tuner threads and passing it along

[steve99]

I suspect it was probably an ecutek tuner, i suspect ecutek keeps a flash count in the software on the computer and then writes this into the vehicle rom along with some of the licience info, you can see it with a hex editor in their "stock" roms. they probably then match the flash count they write to rom with the flash count on the computer as further protection your not flashing multiple cars or mabye their is some flash limit on an ecutek licience, this is speculation though . but it does not appear to be available via the dealer software.

[EpicNameBro]

Originally Posted by Koa

I hereby rescind my comment on that count until it can be verified. I could have sworn I read one of the tuner threads in which they confirmed techstream could see if the ECU has been flashed before, even after flashes back to stock roms..

thus the perils of taking info from armchair tuners and tuner threads and passing it along

They can confirm, however when they do it is up for debate. I would say in all cases of warranty work involving the engine they are definitely checking to see if the ecu was flashed...

[steve99]

Originally Posted by EpicNameBro

They can confirm, however when they do it is up for debate. I would say in all cases of warranty work involving the engine they are definitely checking to see if the ecu was flashed...

Thats not been my experience.
Subaru software may be different but Toyota techstream can just read the calibration id vin number ect and flash new firmware to ecu. . It does not appear to have facilities to pull roms or any reference to a flash counter.

Most tuned roms retain the same calibration id as was originally flashed to ecu or a calid that has been authorised by a manufacturer TSB, so reading the calid will no prove a flash.

Dealers are just sent new calibrations and a TSB to authorise flash, they done have facilities to read and analyse rom tune tables or alter the tune parameters themselves.
If the ecu no longer responds to techstream connected to cars obd port the ecu is just replaced as its assumed its faulty. If techstream talks to ecu they can extract CEL codes ect but these can be erased by removing battery terminal as they appear to be stored in ram memory.

Its possible that the ecu may be sent for deeper analysis, but thats very unlikely to be done at local dealership during normal service or repair operations.

[eddiev116]

Thanks for all this info. I dont know how to do those individual thanks under the posts. I didn't know much about OFT. I looked it up a bit last night. Is there much of a difference between ecutek and oft? I see when trying to put the ecutek back to stock it really is not "stock" . Is that the same for OFT stock flash?

[Ammonia]

My 2 cents, and this may not even be relevant since its a different product, but my Chrysler techs can see if an ECU has been flashed before or tampered with. I don't know how, but they can.

Again, Chrysler =/= Toyobaru so YMMV

[Wepeel]

So this debate happens on just about every enthusiast board. What I know personally for a GR/GV STI... I know of a car that had the shortblock replaced under warranty 3 times, you better believe they checked the ECU before authorizing each replacement, and each time it checked out - they pulled the CalID/VIN to verify. It ran a Cobb AP and unmarried it each time before taking it in. The Cobb AP works in much the same way the OFT does (from my limited knowledge), where it rewrites the factory ROM back to the ECU when it is unmarried.

The same debate is on the STI boards about whether the dealer can tell or not. I think if the car is brought to the dealer running a different tune than factory, they can tell (some people probably bring it in or don't unmarry properly or run something like ECUTek). Cobb has a "stock" tunefile that isn't actually stock but is "like stock" that the user can switch to quickly with the AP, and maybe that's where some confusion came from.

There are other clues that might lead a dealer to suspect whether it's been recently flashed, like emissions readiness, but driving a few miles after a reflash would eliminate that, and apparently it's the same artifact as if the battery power was reset, so it's not conclusive.

It won't help things if there is physical evidence that a header/downpipe/intake/whatever is/was modified.

Of course if they have evidence of you tracking/autoxing (FB, social media, google your name), then you're F'd, ECU evidence or not.

[Malt]

Originally Posted by Ammonia

My 2 cents, and this may not even be relevant since its a different product, but my Chrysler techs can see if an ECU has been flashed before or tampered with. I don't know how, but they can.

Again, Chrysler =/= Toyobaru so YMMV

I believe Audi and BMW can as well because their ECU's were written with the ability to detect these flashes, but I could be wrong about those.

Originally Posted by eddiev116

Thanks for all this info. I dont know how to do those individual thanks under the posts. I didn't know much about OFT. I looked it up a bit last night. Is there much of a difference between ecutek and oft? I see when trying to put the ecutek back to stock it really is not "stock" . Is that the same for OFT stock flash?

The thanks option appears once you have 10 posts.

The difference between Ecutek and OFT is fairly significant. The OFT uses opensource tools to modify roms and flash them. The tablet itself is a tool used to flash the ROMS, datalog, and monitor real time information. Flashing back to your stock ROM completely restores your ECU exactly like it was before the flash. Tunes offered by Shiv are free and he is constantly updating the tunes and releasing new ones for new mods all the time. Several forced induction tunes are available right now but the list of supported kits is small compared to the ones offered by Ecutek tuners.

Ecutek is a proprietary tuning solution that has several features that are currently unavailable in the open source tuning community such as custom tables used to do things. Many of these features are suited to those that are running forced induction. The ECU is flashed with your Ecutek license information and this data is left on the ECU even if you return to a stock tune to enable you to flash back to an Ecutek tune at a later date, thereby making it impossible to truly return back to stock without losing your license information and needing a new one from Ecutek.

What it boils down to is they are both fantastic tuning solutions but at this time they cater to different markets. Many of the features offered by Ecutek are not necessary for the vast majority of owners, this coupled by the fact their price points are vastly different.

If you do some reading here you'll see differing opinions on which is "best" but you as a consumer need to look at your needs before making a decision as to which route to go. The OFT will be perfectly fine for most people while offering options such as realtime monitoring and datalogging straight from the tablet itself instead of having to use a laptop at a very compelling price. If in the future you end up needing more options than the OFT can provide, you can easily unmarry your OFT and resell it for dang near close to what you paid for it.

As a current OFT user I've been very happy with the level of support from Shiv and his team as well as the users here on the forums. I don't regret my decision at all. I've been eyeing a Sprintex kit for a couple months now and if I end up buying it, and Shiv can't provide a tune for it (and I can't find a local tuner I trust to tune it), then I'll probably end up having to swap to Ecutek. Until that time comes however, I'll continue to be happy with my OFT as it fulfills all my needs in a tuning solution.

[kodyo]

I have the FT86SpeedFactory catted header for 5000+ miles with no tune and no CEL. If you are staying relatively stock, you shouldn't have an issue. If you have an intake or a more free flowing exhaust, you may have issues.

My setup:
K&N drop in filter
Perrin inlet tube
Motiv overpipe
Motiv catted front pipe
Greddy SP Elite axleback

[Jar]

I assume the CEL that comes with a catless header is just the O2 sensor barking about the missing cat. Does the engine react in any way (ie. go into a limp mode)?

[Jamesbrz]

I have the ft86 speedway factory header with cat and invidia front pipe just resonated, no tune and no cel, performance wise is a lot better tourque dip is 90% gone and power is a lot smoother through the rev range don't have to rev the ring out of it as much to get it up to speed.

[rjgough95]

Originally Posted by Jar

I assume the CEL that comes with a catless header is just the O2 sensor barking about the missing cat. Does the engine react in any way (ie. go into a limp mode)?

Yes with the AT it will actually downshift very hard only when going from 3rd to 2nd is what I think it is I forget since I clear the code right when it comes on haha.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by eddiev116

Hi guys. I'm looking to add a bit of gains on my vehicle. I am trying to keep the car as stock as possible. I am looking to get UL header not sure what brand yet but want this upgrade in the future. I called a couple of shops and they want me to do a tune with the header upgrade. My question to you knowledgeable twin owners is can I just put an aftermarket header and choose not to tune it but will there be any HP gains without the tune? My only reason to not tune the car is I do not want to ruin my warranty and or my cars computer system.
Thanks in advance for the suggestions and advice.

Here's a dyno run of a UEL header with the factory tune freshly flashed/no learning. The top line, blue, is a header with almost no back-pressure, and the bottom line is with an anti-reversion header, which has some back-pressure. As you can see, running a regular header with a factory tune sucks. The factory tune is made to run with more back-pressure, so power will drop off at the higher RPM's without that back-pressure.

[Koa]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Here's a dyno run of a UEL header with the factory tune freshly flashed/no learning. The top line, blue, is a header with almost no back-pressure, and the bottom line is with an anti-reversion header, which has some back-pressure. As you can see, running a regular header with a factory tune sucks. The factory tune is made to run with more back-pressure, so power will drop off at the higher RPM's without that back-pressure.

You're so ridiculous