We're #2! We're #2! We're #2!

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Sarlacc

Makes sense.

BTW, is it weird if I wonder how your engine feels?

I understand. Sometimes I wonder how HER engines feel.

Everyone on this list under 30 is going "Huh?"

P.S. I think I'll stop now since I'm so far off topic it looks like the opposite end of that cat wormhole.

[reni]

Originally Posted by Sarlacc

I wasn't, actually. I said their culture is sophisticated.

You mean the culture that they tried their hardest to completely eradicate during the "Cultural Revolution"?

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by reni

You mean the culture that they tried their hardest to completely eradicate during the "Cultural Revolution"?

Now you're being an ass, everyone including the Communist Party admits that was a dark period, and Chinese culture is definitely alive and well. My parents grew up in the Cultural Revolution and it's obvious that there was quite a lot of [silent] resistance to it. For example actual cases of kids disowning their own parents was not common despite Mao encouraging it, and if you know anything about Confucianism then you'd know that this is perhaps one of the biggest signs that people weren't really serious about abandoning their culture.

That said, if China has a role-model, it's America. People in China LOVE SUVs and excessive consumption.

[GhostRai]

Originally Posted by Sarlacc

I really wasn't going to take part in this discussion (since I'm not American I really don't care), but this made me change my mind.

The Chinese don't want your way of life. Why would they? They have a highly sophisticated culture with millennia of documented history. They want to improve their own way of life, not steal nor copy anyone else's.

Chinese owns Volvo, the spearhead of automobile safety since the 1950's. Chinese also own 50% of Peugeot-Citroen, and saved that company from serious problems; and Fisker Automotive is owned by Wanxiang Group of China.

Seriously though, these numbers, why do you think they are so important? What do they mean? If you consider the European Union a single economic entity it thrones on top of that list, way ahead of both China and USA. But so what?
It does not measure happiness, welfare, health, safety, life expectancy, gadgets or anything else that really matters to people.
And it certainly does not mean that Chinese people will come and forcibly replace your Japanese FR-S with a Chinese Volvo. So chill out, America :-)

The "we will all be driving Chinese cars in 5 years" quote, I guess in this context it was out of place without any real relevance. But the whole situation got me thinking about their economic power and influence. Embracing the capitalist way with state backing seems to be working for them so it'll be interesting to see China's economic growth for the next few years.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by GhostRai

The "we will all be driving Chinese cars in 5 years" quote, I guess in this context it was out of place without any real relevance. But the whole situation got me thinking about their economic power and influence. Embracing the capitalist way with state backing seems to be working for them so it'll be interesting to see China's economic growth for the next few years.

This is all a repeat of the things said about the Japanese economy and culture in the 1970's. We would all be working for the Japanese, they would run our lives, force us to speak Japanese, etc., etc., etc. None of it happened. Japan now is in a recession that has lasted for years. Relax.

They also said that we'd all be driving Japanese cars... oh, wait, that happened...

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by reni

Anyone referring to Chinese people as "sophisticated" has clearly never been to China or any area popular with Chinese tourists....

You are an awesome American.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by fatoni

turbo cobalts put a faster nurburg laptime (which is a metric i despise) than some legitimately fast cars like the nsx and such. im not saying its a sports car, but its doing something right. to be faster than higher powered rwd cars in a much higher class but to still be written off entirely is the kind of blatant ignorance that should be questioned. thats all im saying.

i think the world would be a better place if we just left the numbers out of gauging sports cars all together.

Doing something right...right up to the moment that the car falls apart. Seeing a Cobalt SS (at least in this area), is a rarity anymore. The cars were powerful, but cheaply made. Which is exactly like the SRT-4 Dodge Neons that were immensely popular 5-10 years ago, but have almost completely disappeared (I seriously think I saw only one this past summer).

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Been to Detroit lately? Cleveland maybe? Whole sections of places like central Tennessee (not dissing anybody but was there recently and damn...)? Even downtown Hamilton right here in Ontario?
Don't have to go to China to find "third world" conditions I am afraid.
The difference is that China is climbing up from third world status.
What about us???????

Woah woah woah, don't lump Cleveland in with Detroit! Our mantra, "We're not Detroit!" Has kept the city from collectively committing suicide for the past 10 years, at least.

In all seriousness, we don't have the whole neighborhoods that are totally unoccupied, but empty houses are a serious problem. So is our police force according to the USJD, but thats a different thread.

Last point, China has been on a housing bubble that dwarfs the buildup to 2007-2008. A building binge that sees miles and miles of coastline developed, entire cities going up in the space of months, new, sparkling apartment buildings, that can easily hold millions of people--at something like 1% occupancy. I understand building for growth, but with a declining birth rate (partially fueled by the cultural preference of sons over daughters), I doubt we'll ever see these buildings anywhere near capacity. Its a system that cannot support itself forever.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Last point, China has been on a housing bubble that dwarfs the buildup to 2007-2008. A building binge that sees miles and miles of coastline developed, entire cities going up in the space of months, new, sparkling apartment buildings, that can easily hold millions of people--at something like 1% occupancy. I understand building for growth, but with a declining birth rate (partially fueled by the cultural preference of sons over daughters), I doubt we'll ever see these buildings anywhere near capacity. Its a system that cannot support itself forever.

The government has clamped down on liquidity in the housing market by introducing taxes, clamping down on credit, etc. Half the country still lives in rural areas and urbanization is inevitable, but not with housing like this. What will probably happen is a somewhat slow fizzle out in real estate since Chinese people have a strong aversion to defaulting or selling real estate, and now there's extra red tape and taxes in the way of selling property.

[tahdizzle]

I don't feel that the US is in any danger of collapsing (any time soon at least), but I feel and I think many people share the same mentality that the US needs to go back to being a global producer again.

I feel that the dependancy on credit purchases has really affected our view on the value of a dollar.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

I feel that the dependancy on credit purchases has really affected our view on the value of a dollar.

I'm trying to find meaning in this sentence. Failing.

[tahdizzle]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I'm trying to find meaning in this sentence. Failing.

Well let me word it like this.

Because we can buy everything on credit, people do not save like they should/used to.
People are also more comfortable with defaulting on credit purchases.

Because of the ease of purchasing items on credit/long term financing coupled with the growing apathy to defaulting, the value of the dollar both metaphorically and literally is missed.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Doing something right...right up to the moment that the car falls apart. Seeing a Cobalt SS (at least in this area), is a rarity anymore. The cars were powerful, but cheaply made. Which is exactly like the SRT-4 Dodge Neons that were immensely popular 5-10 years ago, but have almost completely disappeared (I seriously think I saw only one this past summer).



Woah woah woah, don't lump Cleveland in with Detroit! Our mantra, "We're not Detroit!" Has kept the city from collectively committing suicide for the past 10 years, at least.

In all seriousness, we don't have the whole neighborhoods that are totally unoccupied, but empty houses are a serious problem. So is our police force according to the USJD, but thats a different thread.

Last point, China has been on a housing bubble that dwarfs the buildup to 2007-2008. A building binge that sees miles and miles of coastline developed, entire cities going up in the space of months, new, sparkling apartment buildings, that can easily hold millions of people--at something like 1% occupancy. I understand building for growth, but with a declining birth rate (partially fueled by the cultural preference of sons over daughters), I doubt we'll ever see these buildings anywhere near capacity. Its a system that cannot support itself forever.

it could also be that there were only 3500 or so built. ive only seen one maclaren p1. maybe those things are junkers. they didnt last even as long as the cobalt.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by NWFRS

Not surprised.

We've given it to them one microwave at a time for the last twenty years. Tennis shoes and crappy plastic toys and every bath towel and POS coffee pot and child's toy. Am I still allowed to have my rant if I drive a new car and carry an iPhone..?

I do buy American when it makes sense (quality vs price). Phones.. good luck..


I do like finding old random Made in the USA stuff. Found a 6 outlet power strip the other day. Made in the US. Solid metal of a thicker gauge than my car. I'll keep that thing as it'll last forever - or until the wire corrodes, but I'll just open it up and replace wiring then.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

I do buy American when it makes sense (quality vs price). Phones.. good luck..


I do like finding old random Made in the USA stuff. Found a 6 outlet power strip the other day. Made in the US. Solid metal of a thicker gauge than my car. I'll keep that thing as it'll last forever - or until the wire corrodes, but I'll just open it up and replace wiring then.

I found something made in Canada once!
Although people tend to think of everything made overseas as "cheaply made" or "inferior quality" that is not really the case. There are high quality items made as well but many of those items stay in the countries they were made in and are used domestically. The reason we get the "cheap" stuff here is because that is what the importers order, not because that is all they make.
Had this very discussion with my wife the other day. She was in the dollar store and was complaining about the quality of the plates that were made in China. My simple response was "we are in the dollar store"!