Rear Mount Hydraulic Turbo?

[fang_gt86]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Instead of a shaft (100% conversion efficiency), you are using a pump and a turbine which has considerable losses through flow viscosity and "leakage" at the pump and turbine. It would be better to use an electric generator and motor pair which would have maybe 85% efficiency.

Looks like a typical "gear pump" gives about 85% efficiency with the right design like fluid viscosity, clearance between internal components, friction between mating components, etc..

http://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/report-gear_pump.html

[Tareim]

surely a dc motored centrifugal turbo/supercharger would be more efficient than this setup?

essentially like what mercedes f1 is doing but without the connecting shaft between the compressor and turbine to mimic your configuration rather than hydraulic

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

Looks like a typical "gear pump" gives about 85% efficiency with the right design like fluid viscosity, clearance between internal components, friction between mating components, etc..

http://web.mit.edu/2.972/www/report-gear_pump.html

Now what about the driven side?

[fang_gt86]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Now what about the driven side?

Hard to say what the efficiency rate is for a typical automotive radial flow turbine. If I understand correctly (which is unlikely LOl), I think the efficiency will vary based on its application.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijrm/2012/589720/

[fang_gt86]

Originally Posted by Tareim

surely a dc motored centrifugal turbo/supercharger would be more efficient than this setup?

essentially like what mercedes f1 is doing but without the connecting shaft between the compressor and turbine to mimic your configuration rather than hydraulic

This is basically a hybrid system on steroids. Wonder if they'll introduce it into their production cars.

[stugray]

http://www.cpowert.com/Products/TIGERS

[Tareim]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

This is basically a hybrid system on steroids. Wonder if they'll introduce it into their production cars.

I'm sure it'd come through at some point it's just when and how much

[pushrod]

The hydraulic fluid is going to get stupidly hot. I think that would be the hardest thing to solve: finding a fluid that can live in that environment.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by pushrod

The hydraulic fluid is going to get stupidly hot. I think that would be the hardest thing to solve: finding a fluid that can live in that environment.

So.... how do turbos currently get lubricated? - plain old engine oil?

[Tareim]

Originally Posted by stugray

So.... how do turbos currently get lubricated? - plain old engine oil?

That's correct for the ones I've seen

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[pushrod]

Originally Posted by stugray

So.... how do turbos currently get lubricated? - plain old engine oil?

That's right. But in this case, it's supposed to be a working fluid. Cooling oil circulates by, picks up some heat, and moves on through a cooling process. In this case, it's being pressurized, heated, and moved, all without any cooling. Introducing cooling would cut into the efficiency of this system, and not by a small amount.

[cdrazic93]

Didnt mercedes do this (pull their turbo in half) in their F1?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Didnt mercedes do this (pull their turbo in half) in their F1?

Yes but with a mechanical shaft connecting the two turbines, not a hydraulic coupling like OP is proposing.

From a quick and dirty standpoint if you wanted to try splitting the turbo on a front mounted boxer like this it'd probably be best to have the exhaust turbine in the front of the engine mounted low where our exhaust manifold already is with a shaft vertical to an intake turbine in line with our stock intake manifold.

For our cars you'd have to chop up and lengthen the front end to get the space (and the associated exhaust plumbing wouldn't be pretty) but in the process can probably improve the airflow to reduce the cooling issues high powered toyobaru's have.

[serialk11r]

Hydraulic coupling is extremely lossy and should be avoided whenever possible. A turbo can be transmitting 40hp in bigger engines, and for most applications at least 10.

Mercedes did not split their turbo in half, they kept the shaft because boost is constantly being used so it's better to have more efficiency under boost than less wasted power off boost. On a road car it makes more sense to have a fully electric system because a road car is barely ever on full throttle, but the electrical system needs to be super beefy to transmit that kind of power and so it's probably better to just compromise somewhere and keep a mechanical connection.