quick questions about this car in snow

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by trevorovert

this forum is pretty funny during the winter.

I mean, it's pretty funny for me -

I would avoid this car at all costs if there were snow on the ground. but I live in texas

Us guys that Are used to snow shouldn't have an issue!

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by Pat

Interesting analogy. While I understand what you mean in terms of rear tire grip, also consider it can mean the opposite once traction is lost. The more weight there is at the front of the car, the more likely it is to track straight, much like a dart.
Of course, when there is a lot of weight at the rear (ala Porsche), the car inherently wants to rotate once traction is lost.

Yes! Yes! Yes! And when that weight's concentrated at the back and the rear steps out, the spin will be much easier to catch with steering, both because it'll actually slow down as the weight reaches the forward quadrant of the spin and because the rear will track laterally as well (because both linear and angular momentum are in play).

With a low PMI, there's less linear momentum in proportion to angular momentum, so the spin will be faster and the vertical axis will shift much less (i.e. the car will continue to travel closer to straight ahead as it spins).

[BRZBlack]

Originally Posted by BRZBlack

Get a set of Blizzak WS70's on 16 inch steel wheels. Carry a plastic shovel, and a bag of cat litter in the trunk. Stay away from snow deeper than a foot (to avoid plowing) and you will be good. Going on my second Chicago winter and the first went smooth with these tires. Never lost control. getting out of parking spots on city streets required me to TURN OFF TC or you just won't move at all. Don't drive like an a-hole and you will be fine.

The cat litter in the trunk is not for weight over the rear. Others have covered why this may be a bad idea, given this cars light weight. The litter is for throwing around your rear wheels. Opposed to sand, litter absorbs some of the water and slush around it whereas sand just covers it. A whole bag may be overkill. I carry a medium sized ziplock of the stuff. Maybe even mix some road salt in it. Oh and it is worth mentioning, your windows may freeze and not go down the half inch when you open the door. There is enough flexibility in the window trim that the door will still close safely, just do so gently.. Also, they may get stuck in the down position. "Resetting" them takes a few seconds. I can't remember off hand how I did it but there is a thread buried on the forum about it. I remember putting the car in accessory mode and holding the window down/up button for a few seconds.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

I <3 drift weather lol

[Quentin]

I'm going to drive on the all season bridgestones that shipped on my FR-S. I've gotten by with a Prius v and MINI on all seasons the past 2 years, so I should do alright in the FR-S. On really bad days, I'll take the Rav because my wife won't want to go out in that sort of weather anyway.

[lonborghini]

I'm going with Continental Extreme Winter Contact 205/60-16 on steelies. I expect to enjoy driving in the snow as i always do.

[Thrilled]

Originally Posted by bluesman

The flaw in your logic is that mass (which is what most people wrongly call weight) is the major component of momentum, and momentum is what keeps you sliding when you break loose. The kinetic energy of a car that's sliding on a wet or icy road with wheels locked does more to keep it sliding than its kinetic friction (a fraction of the car's weight) does to stop it. And the heavier the car is, the greater this deficit is - so a skid with locked wheels will be harder to stop on a heavier car than a lighter one unless the heavier car's tires have a much higher coefficient of friction than the light one's.

The math is simple - the kinetic friction of a locked, skidding tire is only 10 to 30% of the car's weight, but the contribution to momentum is 100% of the car's mass. So a lighter car should be much easier to pull out of a skid than a heavier one but only slightly more prone to skid with equally capable tires. Example: a 3500 pound 350Z weighs 40% more than a 2500 pound FR-S, so the extra half ton is a 40% greater contributior to momentum in a skid. But the same tires in appropriate sizes on the two cars will differ in kinetic friction by no more than 20% of the weights of the cars, which is only a 200 pound difference (which is only 20% of the contribution of the added weight to momentum). So weight contributes about twice as much to maintaining a skid as it does to starting and stopping one. All other things being equal, a lighter car should be better in snow than a heavier one. That's why you pass so many big 4x4s that skidded off the road while thinking they could turn and stop better than 2WDers.

See the illustration below. Weight is a measure of the pull of gravity on mass and can be measured as kinetic friction at the tire-road interface because that friction is a fraction of the car's weight.

Thank you for injecting a little sanity into this thread with some math. Very comforting.

[Monchiez]

Well just got home from work.. 1 - 2 inches of snow out and its 12 degrees. Drove with ease with no issues... Well once I entered my neighborhood i started to have fun and do some sliding.. Heh.. Oh and Im on stock tires bridgestone turanza.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Monchiez

Well just got home from work.. 1 - 2 inches of snow out and its 12 degrees. Drove with ease with no issues... Well once I entered my neighborhood i started to have fun and do some sliding.. Heh.. Oh and Im on stock tires bridgestone turanza.

If I had been on stock tires up here yesterday I would probably be dead! With the winter tires though zero issues.

[Monchiez]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If I had been on stock tires up here yesterday I would probably be dead! With the winter tires though zero issues.

I'm still on debate if I really need winter tires. I don't think Kentucky gets enough winter for winter tires. I'll play around this season with the stock all season Turanzas and see =P

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Monchiez

I'm still on debate if I really need winter tires. I don't think Kentucky gets enough winter for winter tires. I'll play around this season with the stock all season Turanzas and see =P

You are likely correct. We didn't have a pile of snow (only about an inch) and it was more the iced area that were causing the issues. There were vehicles in the ditch and accidents all over the place.
I was thinking "Geeeez people this is Canada you forgot what snow and ice are in six months???"

[jvincent]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I was thinking "Geeeez people this is Canada you forgot what snow and ice are in six months???"

Happens every year.

Just proves how stupid the general population really is.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jvincent

Happens every year.

Just proves how stupid the general population really is.

But...but... my SUV has all seasons it should be able to everything!
Stupid province can even keep every inch of the roads clear all the time!
I am a really good driver so don't need to slow down of pay attention!
It isn't me that is the problem it is every other driver on the road!
It was black ice and I couldn't see it what was I supposed to do!
The original stock tires on my 92 Ram still have enough tread for another year and I put weight in the back!
The snow just came out of nowhere!
It was OK when I went to work how could it not be 8 hours later!

Geeez I could keep doing this for hours but ya it happens every year and I will never understand it.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by bluesman

Should you be nuts enough to find yourself in this situation with one wheel on ice, the same advice applies - but backing off in an icy turn could provoke a spin, so be careful.

This exact situation happened to me in the BRZ last winter.
I had the TC/VSC disabled (5 second button press) and as I was merging on the Hwy, the rear stepped out very slightly to the left (drivers side).
Based on your statement above, I knew that I should NOT lift abruptly or could induce snap in oversteer, so I begin to lift very gradually when what happens? TC/VSC lights come on and the car applies the BRAKES and kills the throttle which did what? - You guessed it EXACTLY WHAT I KNEW TO AVOID!.
The TC/VSC system kicked back ON (while disabled) and CAUSED a snap-in oversteer and spun me the opposite direction and I slid backwards into oncoming traffic.

So there is at least one case of the car doing the exact WRONG thing in response to a slide even though it was disabled.