Southeast (Florida) 86CUP Interest Thread

[dradernh]

Up in the Northeast the tracks tend to be sold out. Watkins Glen was sold out at $14K/day a couple of years ago (see here for what the 2014 schedule looks like at a top-line track: http://www.theglen.com/~/media/6BF8F...BDF07D6ED.ashx).

Mosport, which I consider to be the greatest track in the Northeast, was $6K/day a couple of years ago. Stupid cheap, especially if you think about how many cars you can put on a long, fast track like that and still not have trains in the slow groups.

[jester04]

I would be interested! Newbie here for track

[raul]

Originally Posted by D K

Im not an expert, but I would think there are 2 basic requirements to get people to sign up:

1. Cost is reasonable
2. Rule set is easy and logical

Why not start a new host club?

Have to front the money for a track rental, and have to manage a full HPDE schedule. Things I don't want to do just yet. I need to expand the network of people I know to have the proper support to start a new club.

[ViperASR]

Raul, I actually spoke with Tony from The HPDE quite a bit before their first event at PBIR. I'm signed off to instruct with them, so I'd be happy to help where I can. It sounds like he is trying really hard to set that up as another go-to organization in Florida that doesn't require some of the unique necessities of Chin/PCA/NASA.

I know their hope is to be running Sebring and Homestead in 2015. PBIR is fun, but I really want to head back to Sebring and do Homestead in 2015.

[raul]

Originally Posted by ViperASR

Raul, I actually spoke with Tony from The HPDE quite a bit before their first event at PBIR. I'm signed off to instruct with them, so I'd be happy to help where I can. It sounds like he is trying really hard to set that up as another go-to organization in Florida that doesn't require some of the unique necessities of Chin/PCA/NASA.

I know their hope is to be running Sebring and Homestead in 2015. PBIR is fun, but I really want to head back to Sebring and do Homestead in 2015.

Agreed! I think he also wants to run Daytona. I'm hoping he expands to Roebling too since that track is somewhat inexpensive.

[ViperASR]

Originally Posted by raul

Agreed! I think he also wants to run Daytona. I'm hoping he expands to Roebling too since that track is somewhat inexpensive.

I'm doing Roebling in a few weeks for the first time, looking forward to it!
I've got the opportunity to instruct at a 3-day Daytona event and I'm pretty tempted to do it. Daytona charges big big $$$, so I'm not sure how often I'll have the opportunity to run it.

Looking forward to what you and The HPDE can put together!

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by raul

Florida is currently really crappy for any motorsports related events. Tracks and potential autocross venues want to charge too much. $300 is pretty standard in Florida for any track. Chin Motorsports is ridiculous which is why I didn't renew. If you're a novice, you have to pay $50 for membership, $75 for an instructor, and $300 for the track day. My first Sebring track day with Chin was $425. It's insane.

So I just want to chime in here, not to get off topic, but to respond. I'm Scott, I am an event manager with Chin Motorsports. We met at the track earlier this year, and I'm sorry to hear that you're not coming back out with us.

In regards to pricing overall, this is not a cheap hobby. For those who frequent the track, the track fee usually isn't even the most expensive part of the weekend, when you add up the cost of fuel, consumables, meals, hotels, travel, etc. For clubs and organizations, the cost of renting the track is extremely high, and with many tracks you also pay extra for emergency services, each corner worker, concessions, etc. It adds up quickly for a full track weekend with all of the services needed.

In regards to Chin specific pricing, yes, there is an annual membership fee, like any other track club. We also have partnerships with specific vendors and providers that get you an insane discount. Before I worked for Chin, I was using my membership discount to buy brake pads, and saved $300 in one year with my Chin discount with Cobalt Friction. And yes, there is an instructor fee, that the student pays, to subsidize the track time for the instructors, as we do NOT charge instructors for track time.

And finally, the actual track fee itself. Have you taken a look at the amount of time that you get with Chin vs. other clubs? We have done track time per dollar breakdowns against other clubs that run at the tracks, and for example, one club offers a $250 fee, compared to our $325 for Sebring, however they offer 2.08 hours of track time total per day where we are offering 3.5 hours of track time. That's $92.8 per hour on track for us vs. $120 per hour on track for the other club we compared. For many people who invest a lot of money just getting to the track for the weekend, they want to get the most out of their time at the track, and will pay more knowing they are getting more track time AND a better value.

So sure, we can water down our run groups to 20 minute sessions, add another run group, which would drop down the pricing, but we prefer to give the drivers as much time as possible on track and stick to our 3 run groups at 30 minutes each.

Also, we recognize qualifications from other clubs. If you get experience with NASA, PCA, HOD, etc. and want to come with us, we won't stick you in the Novice category just because you haven't run with us before.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by THEmailman

Come up to NCCAR and it'll work out to about $5 grand a day....plus they usually throw in lunch! Unfortunately VIR and Road Atlanta will be pricey too as they are historic and awesome tracks.....Roebling and CMP might be reasonable....

On a side note....I like Chin for the fact that no group I've seen comes anywhere close to the amount of time they give you....I have probably 6 hours of planned on track time this weekend so the price is justified for me

Were you at Road Atlanta this weekend? I was away for a wedding, but will be at our Thanksgiving weekend event there.

[Jack Black]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

In regards to Chin specific pricing, yes, there is an annual membership fee, like any other track club. We also have partnerships with specific vendors and providers that get you an insane discount. Before I worked for Chin, I was using my membership discount to buy brake pads, and saved $300 in one year with my Chin discount with Cobalt Friction. And yes, there is an instructor fee, that the student pays, to subsidize the track time for the instructors, as we do NOT charge instructors for track time.

Just to add a little perspective, prices for track days have also not gone up since the early 2000s when I first started.

[raul]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

So I just want to chime in here, not to get off topic, but to respond. I'm Scott, I am an event manager with Chin Motorsports. We met at the track earlier this year, and I'm sorry to hear that you're not coming back out with us.

In regards to pricing overall, this is not a cheap hobby. For those who frequent the track, the track fee usually isn't even the most expensive part of the weekend, when you add up the cost of fuel, consumables, meals, hotels, travel, etc. For clubs and organizations, the cost of renting the track is extremely high, and with many tracks you also pay extra for emergency services, each corner worker, concessions, etc. It adds up quickly for a full track weekend with all of the services needed.

In regards to Chin specific pricing, yes, there is an annual membership fee, like any other track club. We also have partnerships with specific vendors and providers that get you an insane discount. Before I worked for Chin, I was using my membership discount to buy brake pads, and saved $300 in one year with my Chin discount with Cobalt Friction. And yes, there is an instructor fee, that the student pays, to subsidize the track time for the instructors, as we do NOT charge instructors for track time.

And finally, the actual track fee itself. Have you taken a look at the amount of time that you get with Chin vs. other clubs? We have done track time per dollar breakdowns against other clubs that run at the tracks, and for example, one club offers a $250 fee, compared to our $325 for Sebring, however they offer 2.08 hours of track time total per day where we are offering 3.5 hours of track time. That's $92.8 per hour on track for us vs. $120 per hour on track for the other club we compared. For many people who invest a lot of money just getting to the track for the weekend, they want to get the most out of their time at the track, and will pay more knowing they are getting more track time AND a better value.

So sure, we can water down our run groups to 20 minute sessions, add another run group, which would drop down the pricing, but we prefer to give the drivers as much time as possible on track and stick to our 3 run groups at 30 minutes each.

Also, we recognize qualifications from other clubs. If you get experience with NASA, PCA, HOD, etc. and want to come with us, we won't stick you in the Novice category just because you haven't run with us before.

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I do believe that on a value perspective, as a more advanced driver looking for seat time, Chin is a fantastic alternative. I was focusing more on the initial cost of entry for a novice. A novice doesn't always need, and is likely leave after 2 hours of track time or so. I've seen it happen many times where people simply get burnt out and leave early. Regarding membership fees, you might want to check again. PCA, HOD, PDG, and now TheHPDE do not require memberships to sign up for their track days. Some charge for instructors, some don't, like HOD. If a novice came to me about getting into track driving, I would most likely recommend HOD. Less time on track also means reduced costs in consumables, which is more novice-friendly. It's just a different business model. Chin caters to long-standing hobbyists simply looking for cheaper seat time, while other groups like HOD focus on lowering cost of entry to get new people behind the wheel. You also have to think about the likelihood of not driving for the entire event for any reason. You have many folks who don't understand the stress a track day puts on a car and they end up forfeiting 1 or 2 sessions because something broke or their car is overheating, or they boiled their brake fluid. Many of those are problems novices run into, and you stand to lose a lot more with Chin than with any other group when those things happen.

Now, to clarify, I'm NOT bashing Chin Motorsports, just pointing out pros and cons that I personally see in both business models. In the future, there's a strong possibility I will join Chin again, as I've been investing a lot more time and money into the hobby and it pays off in the long run.

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by raul

Thanks for taking the time to reply! I do believe that on a value perspective, as a more advanced driver looking for seat time, Chin is a fantastic alternative. I was focusing more on the initial cost of entry for a novice. A novice doesn't always need, and is likely leave after 2 hours of track time or so. I've seen it happen many times where people simply get burnt out and leave early. Regarding membership fees, you might want to check again. PCA, HOD, PDG, and now TheHPDE do not require memberships to sign up for their track days. Some charge for instructors, some don't, like HOD. If a novice came to me about getting into track driving, I would most likely recommend HOD. Less time on track also means reduced costs in consumables, which is more novice-friendly. It's just a different business model. Chin caters to long-standing hobbyists, while other groups like HOD focus on getting new people behind the wheel. You also have to think about the likelihood of driving for the entire event for any reason. You have many folks who don't understand the stress a track day puts on a car and they end up forfeiting 1 or 2 sessions because something broke or their car is overheating, or they boiled their brake fluid. Many of those are problems novices run into, and you stand to lose a lot more with Chin than with any other group when those things happen.

Now, to clarify, I'm NOT bashing Chin Motorsports, just pointing out pros and cons that I personally see in both business models. In the future, there's a strong possibility I will join Chin again, as I've been investing a lot more time and money into the hobby and it pays off in the long run.

I definitely understand, just wanted to give our perspective as well. Let us know when you're ready to come back; like I mentioned before we recognize outside experience so you won't get put back in Novice as you gain more track time with other clubs.

[raul]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

I definitely understand, just wanted to give our perspective as well. Let us know when you're ready to come back; like I mentioned before we recognize outside experience so you won't get put back in Novice as you gain more track time with other clubs.

Will do!

[dradernh]

When the subject is track time and the driver has sufficient experience, I recommend open-lapping groups. Registrants receive 7-8 hours a day with the scheduling generally consisting of the morning driver's meeting and an hour for lunch.

Some groups have one or more pros available for consultation - if you've got video and/or data, they'll show you where you're leaving time on the table. They also are sometimes available for in-car coaching. They'll make you faster.

[phastafrican]

Not to scare anyone... but here's the cost of my next event at Daytona. 5hr 40min of scheduled track time. I dislike opening up this spreadsheet before and after each event because you wonder what you could have used all that money for... but then you start thinking about the fun that was had and it's all worth it.


On the argument of more track time vs. cost, here's a comparison with my Roebling Road event and 6hrs of schedule track time.


There are lots of variables that make the cost vary. Now I know you guys aren't towing, etc... simply showing that there is no definite rule on the expense. A specific group may have the environment you chose to be in, and that's who you go with regardless of track time or cost. And sometimes you just pick the most cost effective option.