Southeast (Florida) 86CUP Interest Thread

[mfbmike]

Originally Posted by dradernh

No worries, as VIR is less than two miles inside Virginia when you're coming from the south.

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

For anyone coming up from the south you drive through about 10 miles of Virginia (and that's really a drive back and forth across the border a few times) to get to VIR


And it's the best track in the SE so well worth it.

I was unaware!

Maybe it won't be so bad after all. lol. Georgia is certainly more strict than FL and I've never had a problem in the Carolina's but holy hell the horror stores I've heard out of Virginia are insane.

I've driven through once and made sure not to go over the speed limit at all lol.

[D K]

Just looked at thehpde website.....299 for a track day @PBIR?

Holy crap thats xpensive.

Speedventures is 130ish and Extreme Speed is 75if you do a bundle.

Why so expensive?

Maybe we can find another host club?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by D K

Just looked at thehpde website.....299 for a track day @PBIR?

Holy crap thats xpensive.

Speedventures is 130ish and Extreme Speed is 75if you do a bundle.

Why so expensive?

Maybe we can find another host club?

Not sure what the going rate is at PBIR (it's a pretty shit track IMO so I don't go there unless I have a race there, but I've never done a DE there), but that's about normal pricing for the other Florida tracks, besides FIRM if you like that kind of track..

[Kido1986]

All Florida tracks are stupid expensive. $300-400 a day. Sucks but we have no choice. FIRM is $200 or $250 a day now

[D K]

Are these events usually sold out?

I cant see tracks like pbir costing more than Buttonwillow for example

[Kido1986]

Often, yes.

The issue is Sebring and Daytona. They are huge, have history and demand money for that. PBIR has no excuse (that I know of) other than following Sebring/Daytona's example. "If A and B are charging $10000, why can't I?"

[raul]

Originally Posted by D K

Just looked at thehpde website.....299 for a track day @PBIR?

Holy crap thats xpensive.

Speedventures is 130ish and Extreme Speed is 75if you do a bundle.

Why so expensive?

Maybe we can find another host club?

Florida is currently really crappy for any motorsports related events. Tracks and potential autocross venues want to charge too much. $300 is pretty standard in Florida for any track. Chin Motorsports is ridiculous which is why I didn't renew. If you're a novice, you have to pay $50 for membership, $75 for an instructor, and $300 for the track day. My first Sebring track day with Chin was $425. It's insane. Also our local South Florida autocross club was using the Miami Dolphin stadium at $40 per entry and recently got pushed out because the stadium tripled the lot rental and the insurance doubled, so if you did the math, to provide autocross at cost would be like $105 per driver. For 6 minutes of glory. A local skidpad/roll racing venue also got shut down. It's depressing. Which is why I'm starting this thing.

Attached are PBIR prices as an example. $11,130 for a weekend day after tax. The host clubs are doing this for massive profits. 37 drivers break you even, anything after that is profit. Not to mention the extra charges for any membership to the club, or extra fees for needing an instructor. Groups that run 3 run groups typically allow about 90 entries, with around 30 of them being instructors (no fee). Clubs that run 4 run groups usually try to get 120 drivers, unsure of how many instructors needed, possibly around 40-50. So at least for PBIR, it's not justified unless I'm missing something.

[D K]

Im not an expert, but I would think there are 2 basic requirements to get people to sign up:

1. Cost is reasonable
2. Rule set is easy and logical

Why not start a new host club?

[THEmailman]

Come up to NCCAR and it'll work out to about $5 grand a day....plus they usually throw in lunch! Unfortunately VIR and Road Atlanta will be pricey too as they are historic and awesome tracks.....Roebling and CMP might be reasonable....

On a side note....I like Chin for the fact that no group I've seen comes anywhere close to the amount of time they give you....I have probably 6 hours of planned on track time this weekend so the price is justified for me

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by D K

Are these events usually sold out?

I cant see tracks like pbir costing more than Buttonwillow for example

PCA doesn't really have a limit, but I've been at Sebring with them and well over 200 cars before. It was *stupid*.


Chin limits it and sells out every non-summer event (as summer events suck ass here).


SAFE use to sell out but I haven't done an event with them in forever - they were cheaper though. No instructors/novices allowed back in the day, I think they've changed that.


PBOC is a bunch of assclowns IMO so I don't bother.


NASA.. King Tut likes them I won't comment.


There's another new group but I forgot their name, never ran with them though.


Audi club charges like 900 or something for 2 days at Daytona. And Daytona is a *horrible* track. It's cool to race there once, but I would never do a DE there either.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by D K

Im not an expert, but I would think there are 2 basic requirements to get people to sign up:

1. Cost is reasonable
2. Rule set is easy and logical

Why not start a new host club?

I've thought about doing this - but for profit because tracks all over the EC charge a lot (it's not just Florida, Florida just doesn't have any club tracks willing to charge club track prices). I run (with a group of friends) HPDEs every year for a specific Honda model and it's not rocket science. We do VIR/Mid Ohio/etc for two days with a banquet (with expensive catered food), event t shirt, etc for 400-450 for two days. We don't run for profit though.


Anyways, the problem is cost (track and insurance), reputation, getting instructors, and getting dates. Established groups (and in Florida there are a lot, especially with the big tracks) get their dates every year. You want a weekend at Sebring? I hope you only want to run during the summer. Weekday ok? You MIGHT be able to do events year round. It's really sad, but PBIR costs the same as Sebring. It makes NO sense. Daytona costs more. Homestead was less than Sebring last time I checked but that was years ago. VIR is ~10k a day for full IIRC, might be 11 or 12. Mid Ohio is about 11k/day, RA is about the same, Road America is closer to 15-18k depending on what you want, etc. Even PittRace (BeaveRun) is 11k or so a day for full once they complete it. CMP is 5-6k IIRC. Gingerman in Michigan is ~5.5k a day. The cheapest track to central Florida is probably RRR in Savannah. I haven't checked pricing in years and I can't recall the cost but it was club track level pricing then. Next would be CMP in Kershaw, SC.

It's a tough market to break into and be successful.

Outside of Florida there are club tracks that are cheaper and could be options.

California tracks are just a lot cheaper (well maybe not Sonoma/SP, although it's an awesome track to visit although I didn't drive it).

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by THEmailman

Come up to NCCAR and it'll work out to about $5 grand a day....plus they usually throw in lunch! Unfortunately VIR and Road Atlanta will be pricey too as they are historic and awesome tracks.....Roebling and CMP might be reasonable....

On a side note....I like Chin for the fact that no group I've seen comes anywhere close to the amount of time they give you....I have probably 6 hours of planned on track time this weekend so the price is justified for me

Time and instructor quality is usually MUCH better. PCA is known for pushing their specific line and being safe, chin instructors push students a bit more. There are bad instructors in both of course.


NCCAR isn't that great of a track, it's OK, but I'd rather drive CMP

[D K]

I dont think California tracks (Fontana/Laguna excluded) are any cheaper.

Last I checked, its about 15-20 per day all in - insurance, ambukance, tow truck, corner workers.

I need to find a way to do track days for less than 200 per day, otherwise its cheaper to fly to California and do a weekend out there.

It makes no sense whatsoever to pay 300 per day to run at a track like PBIR which is the Florida version of big Willow.
I could justify 250ish to run someplace like RA.

PBIR should do what big willow does: open practice every Friday for 50 bucks (I think)

[Deep Six]

PCA events tend to be reasonably priced but over crowded. Coastal Empire is usually less crowded at Roebling than Crown or Citrus. Dark Side runs 2 weekends a year at Roebling as well with less than 80 registrants.


The PCA events at Sebring are always maxed out with zero open track available.


Flat Out Motorsports hosts a couple Roebling events for $299 per weekend with 60 car limit. They have also booked CMP at $399 and Sebring at $499 but had to cancel both events due to insufficient registration.


NARRA has TT at Sebring available in Nov for $450 for the weekend plus transponder rental.