quick questions about this car in snow

[Skurge]

i live in buffalo, and DD my FRS

let me tell you, on stock tires, you will get stuck, everywhere

i made the mistake of not getting snow tires last year(luckily i work from home so i dont really HAVE to leave the house) but this year i have a set on order!

[NOHOME]

About to enter 3rd winter (that went fast) and with Blizzacks on all 4 corners, have not had an issue.

What gets interesting is if you are out in the deep stuff where you might be plowing a bit of snow, and say turning left across a busy road, the traction control will keep you moving, but it is going to be slow moving. Its not the traction that slows you, but rather the computer responding to every little slip in a situation where one tire is already going faster than the other (any turn will do that) I generally turn it off if I have to make such a left hand turn. Same applies for when I pull in to the neighborhood where the streets are not plowed.

The car does step out pretty quick if the nannies are off, so pretty much leave them on.

[moojpg2]

This car is horrible in the snow for anything but goofing around in a couple inches of snow. I dont care how good you are at drifting or driving its just plain dangerous in the winter. It's too light and too low to the ground. I live in western ma where its hilly and snow usually comes either as wet heavy crap or 4"+ at a time and this car is absolutely useless no matter what tires are on it. Everyone tries to justify driving it through winter but I'm a first responder and often have no choice but to drive in heavy snow and this thing will either get u stuck or killed, or crashed, in anything more than 2" of snow. This year its staying in summer/track form and being winterized and stored under a cover i'm not even going to bother trying. I have a truck with a plow so its not an issue for me but if i had just the BRZ i would definitely be buying an awd or fwd car for a winter beater.

[MAPerformance]

I have to agree with you. Though I drove mine through two winters here in MN (bad ones at that) I didn't have any issues or got stock, but I thought it was very sketchy. It was very difficult to start from a stop most of the time. Once rolling it was manageable, and braking was great, but anything over 2" at speeds over 45mph, the car was just everywhere. I am no longer driving it through the winter. Not worth the stress for me personally.

Originally Posted by moojpg2

This car is horrible in the snow for anything but goofing around in a couple inches of snow. I dont care how good you are at drifting or driving its just plain dangerous in the winter. It's too light and too low to the ground. I live in western ma where its hilly and snow usually comes either as wet heavy crap or 4"+ at a time and this car is absolutely useless no matter what tires are on it. Everyone tries to justify driving it through winter but I'm a first responder and often have no choice but to drive in heavy snow and this thing will either get u stuck or killed, or crashed, in anything more than 2" of snow. This year its staying in summer/track form and being winterized and stored under a cover i'm not even going to bother trying. I have a truck with a plow so its not an issue for me but if i had just the BRZ i would definitely be buying an awd or fwd car for a winter beater.

[Timmy_Jones]

Here is how I see it: Car rarely ever crash in the snow because of the orientation of the drivetrain (RWD, FWD, AWD) cars crash because they cannot stop or turn….most of that is on the tires and weight of the vehicle. I would be far more concerned with the weight of our vehicle, being able to gain traction for stopping and turning, then I would about it being RWD. Just be careful accelerating and swinging the tail around.

It’s all about the tires.

[Takumi788]

If your winters are anything like Syracuse NY winters (average 115 inches of snow annually) than I highly recommend stock suspension (or lifted if you can) and winter tires are a must. The stock tires wont get you anywhere.

I love RWD in the winter. I have wintered both an FC RX7 with wide summer tires and a 240sx Convertible with all seasons with out a problem. My winter rat blew up last year and I was forced to drive the FRS in March and with stock tires. It wasn't easy.

http://www.city-data.com/top2/c464.html - My city is #1 in suckiest winters. Yay me.

[bluesman]

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

Here is how I see it: Car rarely ever crash in the snow because of the orientation of the drivetrain (RWD, FWD, AWD) cars crash because they cannot stop or turn….most of that is on the tires and weight of the vehicle. I would be far more concerned with the weight of our vehicle, being able to gain traction for stopping and turning, then I would about it being RWD. Just be careful accelerating and swinging the tail around.

It’s all about the tires.

The flaw in your logic is that mass (which is what most people wrongly call weight) is the major component of momentum, and momentum is what keeps you sliding when you break loose. The kinetic energy of a car that's sliding on a wet or icy road with wheels locked does more to keep it sliding than its kinetic friction (a fraction of the car's weight) does to stop it. And the heavier the car is, the greater this deficit is - so a skid with locked wheels will be harder to stop on a heavier car than a lighter one unless the heavier car's tires have a much higher coefficient of friction than the light one's.

The math is simple - the kinetic friction of a locked, skidding tire is only 10 to 30% of the car's weight, but the contribution to momentum is 100% of the car's mass. So a lighter car should be much easier to pull out of a skid than a heavier one but only slightly more prone to skid with equally capable tires. Example: a 3500 pound 350Z weighs 40% more than a 2500 pound FR-S, so the extra half ton is a 40% greater contributior to momentum in a skid. But the same tires in appropriate sizes on the two cars will differ in kinetic friction by no more than 20% of the weights of the cars, which is only a 200 pound difference (which is only 20% of the contribution of the added weight to momentum). So weight contributes about twice as much to maintaining a skid as it does to starting and stopping one. All other things being equal, a lighter car should be better in snow than a heavier one. That's why you pass so many big 4x4s that skidded off the road while thinking they could turn and stop better than 2WDers.

See the illustration below. Weight is a measure of the pull of gravity on mass and can be measured as kinetic friction at the tire-road interface because that friction is a fraction of the car's weight.

[Timmy_Jones]

Originally Posted by bluesman

The flaw in your logic is that mass (which is what most people wrongly call weight) is the major component of momentum, and momentum is what keeps you sliding when you break loose. The kinetic energy of a car that's sliding on a wet or icy road with wheels locked does more to keep it sliding than its kinetic friction (a fraction of the car's weight) does to stop it.

ABS - my tires aren't locked up when I'm sliding, the ABS system is working to keep them digging into the snow.

[moojpg2]

I used to drive a P71 crown vic and ill tell you that was a beast in the snow compared to the BRZ. It was a heavy car and it got good traction. The BRZ/FRS sucks in the snow period. Its marginal at best with snow tires. I had blizzaks on mine and i barely made it up my street every time it snowed, got stuck twice, tried every trick in the book. My old crown vic never missed a beat however. Dont tell me based on math that a lighter car is better in the snow. The heavy car has the weight to displace the snow and get down to pavement and it tracks better in ruts. The brz has no chance.

[Cope52]

Originally Posted by moojpg2

I used to drive a P71 crown vic and ill tell you that was a beast in the snow compared to the BRZ. It was a heavy car and it got good traction. The BRZ/FRS sucks in the snow period. Its marginal at best with snow tires. I had blizzaks on mine and i barely made it up my street every time it snowed, got stuck twice, tried every trick in the book. My old crown vic never missed a beat however. Dont tell me based on math that a lighter car is better in the snow. The heavy car has the weight to displace the snow and get down to pavement and it tracks better in ruts. The brz has no chance.

Which Blizzaks did u have? I had LM-60s on an RX8 and could only make it up hills if no more than 2". Once the plows and treating come its tit of course.

I don't get these people that say they can drive in 5" in a RWD on "performance" winters no prob. They must be lying even if all the roads were flat.

Looks like I'm either gonna head south, or spring for a set of WS80s and suffer the dry handling..

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bluesman

The flaw in your logic is that mass (which is what most people wrongly call weight) is the major component of momentum, and momentum is what keeps you sliding when you break loose. The kinetic energy of a car that's sliding on a wet or icy road with wheels locked does more to keep it sliding than its kinetic friction (a fraction of the car's weight) does to stop it. And the heavier the car is, the greater this deficit is - so a skid with locked wheels will be harder to stop on a heavier car than a lighter one unless the heavier car's tires have a much higher coefficient of friction than the light one's.

The math is simple - the kinetic friction of a locked, skidding tire is only 10 to 30% of the car's weight, but the contribution to momentum is 100% of the car's mass. So a lighter car should be much easier to pull out of a skid than a heavier one but only slightly more prone to skid with equally capable tires. Example: a 3500 pound 350Z weighs 40% more than a 2500 pound FR-S, so the extra half ton is a 40% greater contributior to momentum in a skid. But the same tires in appropriate sizes on the two cars will differ in kinetic friction by no more than 20% of the weights of the cars, which is only a 200 pound difference (which is only 20% of the contribution of the added weight to momentum). So weight contributes about twice as much to maintaining a skid as it does to starting and stopping one. All other things being equal, a lighter car should be better in snow than a heavier one. That's why you pass so many big 4x4s that skidded off the road while thinking they could turn and stop better than 2WDers.

See the illustration below. Weight is a measure of the pull of gravity on mass and can be measured as kinetic friction at the tire-road interface because that friction is a fraction of the car's weight.

HMMMMM

[navanodd]

I drove this past winter in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and had no issues. I ran 16" Michelin X-ice Xi3's.


I only ever had issue with 4" of loose snow or more, but that will be the case with just about all cars that aren't CUVs/SUVs. Our cars have a short height, but the ground clearance isn't particularly lower than other similarly sized vehicles.


The torsen was a huge help, and I think that the car would suffer badly in the snow without it. One warning is that if you do spin wheels, keep in mind you are spinning both rear wheels and you lose some lateral stability. Without a limited slip, the tire that wasn't spinning would still help stop you from sliding sideways.


The snow mode on the automatic locks out first gear. This works in both manual and automatic mode. It also makes the shifts softer and seems to lock the torque converter less aggressively. I definitely found it useful if the roads were particularly bad.

[andrewmay9]

i appreciate all the feedback however I'm still curious about the rust proofing. Those links provided and my searches just found information about where to get it done if you've decided to do it. Is it a necessary thing for these cars?

[HiredGun]

Originally Posted by andrewmay9

i appreciate all the feedback however I'm still curious about the rust proofing. Those links provided and my searches just found information about where to get it done if you've decided to do it. Is it a necessary thing for these cars?

That depends how long you want to keep the car. 10 or more years? Sure do it. Less than that I wouldn't bother. I'm sure the future owners would appreciate it though