Loud Rattling Noise at Start Up

[tomaszjanczak]

Originally Posted by litemup

I'm a noob with this engine - another reason I hope I'm wrong. Maybe someone dumped water into your crankcase accidentally? Did you see the used oil?

Be very concerned if you hear it at all the first time you start it in the morning. That deep knock is an expensive sound.

I change the oil myself and still have the old oil in a container. I saw it lol, but I don't know what to look for. I can take a picture of it tomorrow since you know a ton more than I do. Sunday, Monday and today, the noise didn't happen on the first start up in the morning, it might have happened once each day (very quietly) but later in the day.

[litemup]

Originally Posted by tomaszjanczak

I change the oil myself and still have the old oil in a container. I saw it lol, but I don't know what to look for. I can take a picture of it tomorrow since you know a ton more than I do. Sunday, Monday and today, the noise didn't happen on the first start up in the morning, it might have happened once each day (very quietly) but later in the day.

Awww, man. I've been looking around for some of the "real" experts in between posts.

Stir it up before you take the pic. If there's water in there it would sink. Otherwise, doubtful we'd see anything.

I just went out and compared with mine. If you look again at your vid, notice how long it took for the oil pressure light to go out and how it corresponds to the disappearance of the knock.

Also, that knock is not general clatter. It sounds like only one rod.

Oil pressure is directly related to engine speed. You can use this principle to listen for a bad bearing.

Find yourself a long uphill climb. One where you can run in 5th slowly enough the engine lugs around 1500 RPM. Set yourself up so you can do this test and get it over with quickly. It's terrible even for a healthy engine. Low RPM is not bad by itself (engine idle - duh) but it's not cool to ask the engine for any real work down that low.

Shift up into 5th or 6th (whatever, you get the picture) and smoothly but quickly floor it. Listen for any knocks. You might even feel it in the gearshift. After no more than a second or two, pick the correct gear and get the revs back up.

[73TORANA!]

The only real way you can do it your self is to cut the filter open and look for metal in the filter paper but BE CAREFUL you don't cut the sh1t out of your hands doing this, I DID, its a slippery little sucker. Magnets in oil will only pick up rings cam or cranks etc, bearings are a non metallic alloy. I had them check my oil pressure and it was fine. At this stage I have put it down to oil viscosity break down ?? it hasnt com back for 5000Km's fingers crossed.

[tomaszjanczak]

Originally Posted by litemup

Awww, man. I've been looking around for some of the "real" experts in between posts.

Stir it up before you take the pic. If there's water in there it would sink. Otherwise, doubtful we'd see anything.

I just went out and compared with mine. If you look again at your vid, notice how long it took for the oil pressure light to go out and how it corresponds to the disappearance of the knock.

Also, that knock is not general clatter. It sounds like only one rod.

Oil pressure is directly related to engine speed. You can use this principle to listen for a bad bearing.

Find yourself a long uphill climb. One where you can run in 5th slowly enough the engine lugs around 1500 RPM. Set yourself up so you can do this test and get it over with quickly. It's terrible even for a healthy engine. Low RPM is not bad by itself (engine idle - duh) but it's not cool to ask the engine for any real work down that low.

Shift up into 5th or 6th (whatever, you get the picture) and smoothly but quickly floor it. Listen for any knocks. You might even feel it in the gearshift. After no more than a second or two, pick the correct gear and get the revs back up.

Hey, so this morning at first start up, it made the noise but very quietly and for a very short time (3 knocks maybe). Now I can't even replicate it consistently because sometimes when the car has been sitting for a while, the noise won't happen but if it's off for 15 seconds, it might happen. It's very random now.

Later, I did the test going uphill exactly as you said but I did not hear anything. Did it a second time, and still nothing.

I took some pictures of the oil and you can see them by going to this link: http://imgur.com/a/YcKxJ

Thank you for all of your help!

[litemup]

Originally Posted by tomaszjanczak

Hey, so this morning at first start up, it made the noise but very quietly and for a very short time (3 knocks maybe). Now I can't even replicate it consistently because sometimes when the car has been sitting for a while, the noise won't happen but if it's off for 15 seconds, it might happen. It's very random now.

Later, I did the test going uphill exactly as you said but I did not hear anything. Did it a second time, and still nothing.

I took some pictures of the oil and you can see them by going to this link: http://imgur.com/a/YcKxJ

Thank you for all of your help!

I think that's just bubbles from the stir. I don't see any white or beige globs so, no water.

@73TORANA! has great advice. I've never tried that but it makes sense.

[mweidner311]

Just wanted to add my two cents

Looks to me like there is a LOT of tiny silver particles that the bubbles are attached to hard to tell from the photos.

But what I can see is for this oil only being four months old and you saying you don't drive enough to reach the oil change mile interval this oil looks thoroughly used.
Color isn't a tell all but 4 month old oil would still look pretty damn clean in fact mine is over 5 months old and about 3k miles and it still gold as the day I poured it in there.

Do yourself a favor and do as others have already said get it to a dealer ASAP make sure you save your oil and filter receipts I see that becoming an issue when they ultimately diagnosis you with severe engine damage....

Good luck dude, thanks for sharing, and keep the updates coming

[tomaszjanczak]

Going to the dealer tomorrow! I have all receipts and I don't think warranty can be voided if the owner does his/her own maintenance but I will just have to wait and see what happens and update here.

[axelo]

Good luck, its a shame anyone should go thru this

[litemup]

Originally Posted by axelo

Good luck, its a shame anyone should go thru this

Sux but, statistically, some of us are gonna end up with that one bum part. That's just plain mass production.

OP, chin up. Especially if you have your receipts, you are in great shape. Just be cool no matter what. I bet it'll go well from the first visit.

[73TORANA!]

Hey litemup thats a perfect way to listen for bearing knocks, we used to do that years ago, i forgot all about it nice one. Yep cutting open oil filters is pretty standard in the aircraft industry .

tomaszjanczak : get the dealer to check the oil pressure when the engine is hot I.E after at least 15mins running as it will take that long for the oil temp to stabilize. If you got the old oil keep it as they may want to look at it.
The knock sound will go away if you stop the engine and start it again in a few mins as there will be still a lot of residual oil in the lines and around all the bearings etc. I had to leave my car for 4 hours before it would do it again.
Out of interest what grade oil did you put in.
Good luck mate and keep us posted.

[tomaszjanczak]

Originally Posted by 73TORANA!

Hey litemup thats a perfect way to listen for bearing knocks, we used to do that years ago, i forgot all about it nice one. Yep cutting open oil filters is pretty standard in the aircraft industry .

tomaszjanczak : get the dealer to check the oil pressure when the engine is hot I.E after at least 15mins running as it will take that long for the oil temp to stabilize. If you got the old oil keep it as they may want to look at it.
The knock sound will go away if you stop the engine and start it again in a few mins as there will be still a lot of residual oil in the lines and around all the bearings etc. I had to leave my car for 4 hours before it would do it again.
Out of interest what grade oil did you put in.
Good luck mate and keep us posted.

Thanks for your advice! I used Mobil 1 0w-20 advanced fuel economy.

[tomaszjanczak]

Well, the visit at the dealer was uneventful. They said they started it multiple times waiting in between and got absolutely no noises. They went for a test drive as well. When they gave me back the keys and sent me on my way, no noise. Oh well.

I've also realized the same knocking noise when I'm slowing down, don't know if it's the same noise but it sounds like it. I guess I'll have to go back another day.

[Simon99]

Originally Posted by tomaszjanczak

Well, the visit at the dealer was uneventful. They said they started it multiple times waiting in between and got absolutely no noises. They went for a test drive as well. When they gave me back the keys and sent me on my way, no noise. Oh well.

I've also realized the same knocking noise when I'm slowing down, don't know if it's the same noise but it sounds like it. I guess I'll have to go back another day.

I think I'll go late at night, drop my car in the visitor parking at the dealership and then go start it up with them next morning ... All the talk of blown engines freaks me out !

[tomaszjanczak]

Went to the dealer again, left my car there so they can check it out for a few days.

But they pulled up my car's history and there were some interesting things in there. I bought the car used in December of 2013 and the only thing the dealership told me was that the camshaft was replaced 2 times. However, the history report showed that the short block was replaced at 1,600 miles then later the camshaft was indeed replaced 2 times along with the ECU and a bunch of other stuff! It's really just bad luck I think. I'm under warranty so thankfully I won't have to pay for a new engine if it gets to that point but it really is a super rare problem with these cars and I guess I'm one of them.