Twins vs 2015 z06

[PhoKingCool]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

FR-S 25k
LS9 21k
Magnum XL Transmission 5k
Wheels and Tires 5k
Rocket Bunny 5k
Suspension 5k+
Brakes 5k
Axle/Drive shaft/differential 7k
Exhaust 2k
Cooling 2k
Bracing 1k

83k and then you get to install it all. 9k?
And then you get to troubleshoot. 3k?
And that's if it all goes reasonably well.

Oh, sure, you can go with a used engine and transmission. Supercharge it yourself. You can also get a used Corvette, so that's a wash. You'll be special, fo sho, but you'll be out of a lot of money.

I think you exaggerated on your prices there bud. Either that or you are really generous with your budgeting.

[Atropine]

Pricing is off...

But a lot of people expect legos and do not plan accordingly.

I just wanna reiterate...built custom cars are awesome...just horrid money pits...lol

[EAGLE5]

When you have your 19x10s in the front and 20x12s in the back, you're paying about 2500 for wheels and another 2000 for tires, and probably. What? You were gonna put some 17x9 RPF1s and some 245mm Pilot Super Sports on a car with 600+lb/ft of torque? Good luck with that. Perhaps you would prefer some Rotas?

Is it the suspension you have an issue with? That's the biggest underestimate of all. You gonna run some Fortune Auto 500s? Uh hu. A set of coilovers is nice, sure, but you still need upper and lower control arms, new bushings everywhere, probably a rear subframe replacement. Some new taller top hats for the rear. Full camber adjustment in the front. And then you can buy a real set of coilovers. They'll still ride like crap compared to the computer controlled Corvette shocks, and what corners well won't want to put down the power, but something from MCS or the like might help. If you're serious, you'll buy some Penskes. Oh goodness, there goes that 5k budget.

Oh, how about the engine? Well, you can pick up everything used if you look long and hard enough. Then again, you're comparing used to new. Not a fair comparison. Wait a year or two and that 80k Z06 isn't nearly so expensive. Wait three years and story is even more in the Vette's favor. Oh, you can fully build a super-powerful engine for less than that? Sure, possibly, but it won't be reliable and it won't meet emissions. It will also be used. Transmission? The one I listed does 700lb/ft of torque. Your picknpull transmission probably won't handle that for long.

Brakes? You're getting ~350mm discs. If you're going 150+ on the straight, I hope you have plans to slow down. The standard AP racing kit won't cut it. The enduro probably won't either. I think you're looking at the $3000 set for the fronts (CSG prices online). Gotta stop the rears, too, though. There's another 2k I suppose.

Exhaust? A custom 3" the whole way. You might need a custom header. That will destroy the 2k budget. You can always go to Ed, the local muffler guy, I suppose. Hope that works well for you.

Axles and such? I just modeled it on the Full Blown set they already make, but I figured a few extra hundred for a custom shaft.

Cooling? Well, you'll need a big radiator. You won't be using the stock FR-S fans. You'll probably need to cool the transmission and differential too. You should for sure. Yeah, 2k seems fair.

I totally forgot the fuel system. Need a new pump and a return system. You'll drain that stock tank pretty damn fast, too. 2k? You'll want a fuel swirl pot most likely. Not sure how they do it on the Z06.

Course, you can just turbo the shit out of an FA20. That will still cost a lot if you want reliability. Built motor. Dry sump oil system. Probably totally undrivable as a road racer at the 600hp level as the boost slams in. Definitely not as good as a Z06.

I am so off.

[Sideways&Smiling]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

When you have your 19x10s in the front and 20x12s in the back, you're paying about 2500 for wheels and another 2000 for tires, and probably. What? You were gonna put some 17x9 RPF1s and some 245mm Pilot Super Sports on a car with 600+lb/ft of torque? Good luck with that. Perhaps you would prefer some Rotas?

Is it the suspension you have an issue with? That's the biggest underestimate of all. You gonna run some Fortune Auto 500s? Uh hu. A set of coilovers is nice, sure, but you still need upper and lower control arms, new bushings everywhere, probably a rear subframe replacement. Some new taller top hats for the rear. Full camber adjustment in the front. And then you can buy a real set of coilovers. They'll still ride like crap compared to the computer controlled Corvette shocks, and what corners well won't want to put down the power, but something from MCS or the like might help. If you're serious, you'll buy some Penskes. Oh goodness, there goes that 5k budget.

Oh, how about the engine? Well, you can pick up everything used if you look long and hard enough. Then again, you're comparing used to new. Not a fair comparison. Wait a year or two and that 80k Z06 isn't nearly so expensive. Wait three years and story is even more in the Vette's favor. Oh, you can fully build a super-powerful engine for less than that? Sure, possibly, but it won't be reliable and it won't meet emissions. It will also be used. Transmission? The one I listed does 700lb/ft of torque. Your picknpull transmission probably won't handle that for long.

Brakes? You're getting ~350mm discs. If you're going 150+ on the straight, I hope you have plans to slow down. The standard AP racing kit won't cut it. The enduro probably won't either. I think you're looking at the $3000 set for the fronts (CSG prices online). Gotta stop the rears, too, though. There's another 2k I suppose.

Exhaust? A custom 3" the whole way. You might need a custom header. That will destroy the 2k budget. You can always go to Ed, the local muffler guy, I suppose. Hope that works well for you.

Axles and such? I just modeled it on the Full Blown set they already make, but I figured a few extra hundred for a custom shaft.

Cooling? Well, you'll need a big radiator. You won't be using the stock FR-S fans. You'll probably need to cool the transmission and differential too. You should for sure. Yeah, 2k seems fair.

I totally forgot the fuel system. Need a new pump and a return system. You'll drain that stock tank pretty damn fast, too. 2k? You'll want a fuel swirl pot most likely. Not sure how they do it on the Z06.

Course, you can just turbo the shit out of an FA20. That will still cost a lot if you want reliability. Built motor. Dry sump oil system. Probably totally undrivable as a road racer at the 600hp level as the boost slams in. Definitely not as good as a Z06.

I am so off.

lol @ the talk of 19 and 20 inch wheels and $5k Rocket Bunny aero kits. Dude, you do not need 19 or 20 inch wheels. Wide wheels to fit wide tires? Yes, but 19s and 20s? No. And Rocket Bunny isn't even real aero. It's stylish aero for people into drifting and import car culture. It's no Voltex.

Besides that, you're talking about trying to turn an FRS into a Z06 by using all the same damn parts. That's not the point. You don't need to make it a ZO6 to produce something on the same or a similar level of performance, and you don't need to spend anywhere near that amount of money. The FRS is already a great handling car compared to many other great handling cars which are already used in top tier motorsports. It already has great balance. It's already a blast to drive. It needs power. Yes, power costs money, but it doesn't need a V8. You're acting like it's a 30 year old POS, and that's far from the case.

[Atropine]

Both sides have good points...

Really we are arguing over the same points...but have same opinion.

Bang for the buck...not much beats a Twin at 25k or a Vette at 80k (or 55-60k in a year or two).

If you want a 200 mph speed merchant...nothing does it better and for less than a Vette.

If you want a GREAT car that is a mighty fine DD and great at the track for mortals...the Twins are perfect for that.

There is a reason at the 'Ring...the new Vette is eating alive the times of cars that cost 4 times as much.

http://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

Personally, I think I would end up in jail if I bought a Vette...though I will probably own one eventually.

I really enjoyed my BRZ while I had it...its an amazing car. I ended up getting my Grandfather's mint condition 1991 Mazda Miata so I unloaded it.

But seriously, of every sportscar I have ever owned...the BRZ was probably the purist driving experience I ever had short of my AW-11 MR2s (I like go-karts)

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They may have the resources but I do not think the majority of guys that are modding twins with high boost are really doing any of the work themselves. From what I read in the boosted forum, most of them are simply writing checks and charging up credit cards for others to do the initial build and then all the maintenance and troubleshooting that comes after.

Why is it that so many in the tuner crowd (of which I consider myself a part) are always trying to make their cars into something they are not? They always want to challenge the exotics or muscle cars (which they badmouth constantly). Dollar for dollar they are never going to win the HP and torque wars against the American V8s. That is why nearly all the Pro drifters have switched to LS swaps. (just one obvious example.)

I love Honda, Mazda, Toyota and Nissan cars and have owned a bunch over the years. What I love about them is light weight, good handling and small bore sophisticated motors. In their class, they are the best in the world but when they try to move up to the heavy weight class they loose their punch and all their advantages.

I am always happy to be able to compete with or beat everyone in my class. The twins can do that. That is what makes them such a great car.

But a Z06 killer, they are not.

All you need is 300whp in a twin to beat most American V8s (stock). Hell, a 250whp twin will smoke a srt8 challenger with a linear powerband. The thing that sets the twins apart from everything else is we are light rwd cars with a very durable engine that can handle up to 450-500whp on stock internals.

Most of us that slap on FI kits don't simply have the time of resources to work on our own car. I don't have a garage or 2nd hand car, so I'm going to take my car to the shop where all the tools and resources are available. Most FI guys are knowledgeable of what they are doing.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

All you need is 300whp in a twin to beat most American V8s (stock). Hell, a 250whp twin will smoke a srt8 challenger with a linear powerband. The thing that sets the twins apart from everything else is we are light rwd cars with a very durable engine that can handle up to 450-500whp on stock internals.

Most of us that slap on FI kits don't simply have the time of resources to work on our own car. I don't have a garage or 2nd hand car, so I'm going to take my car to the shop where all the tools and resources are available. Most FI guys are knowledgeable of what they are doing.

Question...

It will smoke an SRT8 Challenger around a course or in a straight line (i.e. highway?)

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Question...

It will smoke an SRT8 Challenger around a course or in a straight line (i.e. highway?)

ummm. d).all of the above

Jaden

hellcat, not so much....would need around 450-500 to smoke a hellcat...

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by Jaden

ummm. d).all of the above

Jaden

hellcat, not so much....would need around 450-500 to smoke a hellcat...

Then incorrect...

I have owned both...

And SRT8 Challenger will pull on a 250hp Twin all day long.

The Twin will own the Challenger around an AutoX course and a technical course.

A road course with long sweepers and straightaways...the Challenger will post better times. The BRZ will look better doing it though.

The Twins are a great car...but it really seems like people have unreasonable expectations or beliefs about what these cars can do.

In normal driving conditions...the Twins are way more fun...that is one reason I unloaded my SRT8 Challenger (and my old 4Runner died so I sold the Challenger and bought a new 4Runner and a BRZ).

[Twin4Life]

Stock for Stock, the twins destroy the Veyron. A Vette is nothing. Batman told me.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Atropine

Then incorrect...

I have owned both...

And SRT8 Challenger will pull on a 250hp Twin all day long.

The Twin will own the Challenger around an AutoX course and a technical course.

A road course with long sweepers and straightaways...the Challenger will post better times. The BRZ will look better doing it though.

The Twins are a great car...but it really seems like people have unreasonable expectations or beliefs about what these cars can do.

In normal driving conditions...the Twins are way more fun...that is one reason I unloaded my SRT8 Challenger (and my old 4Runner died so I sold the Challenger and bought a new 4Runner and a BRZ).

I missed the 250hp part.. I was looking at the 300 hp for most v8's that he had posted...

Jaden

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by Twin4Life

Stock for Stock, the twins destroy the Veyron. A Vette is nothing. Batman told me.

ahhh another butt hurt genesis boat owner....well bless your heart....

Jaden



BTW, I AM batman.....to the bat cave!!!!!!!

[Twin4Life]

Originally Posted by Jaden

ahhh another butt hurt genesis boat owner....well bless your heart....

Jaden



BTW, I AM batman.....to the bat cave!!!!!!!

Oh, you think the darkness is your ally, but you merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it.

[DylanFRS]

Reading this thread made me feel like a fat kid downing a box of cookies... I am so ashamed of myself right now...