Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[nlowell]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

I think @DAEMANO and I need a test unit. Hell at this moment Im ok with sharing it with him just so I can play with it. Also I am willing to sacrifice my clutch to beat @nlowell 's setup just to prove a point.

I just need to dump $4k into automatic transmission upgrades to get anywhere near what you have for launch now

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53020

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

I think @DAEMANO and I need a test unit. Hell at this moment Im ok with sharing it with him just so I can play with it. Also I am willing to sacrifice my clutch to beat @nlowell 's setup just to prove a point.

Yeah sure. I need a test unit too

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by nlowell

I just need to dump $4k into automatic transmission upgrades to get anywhere near what you have for launch now



http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53020

Yeah but your top end is awesome.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

I think @DAEMANO and I need a test unit. Hell at this moment Im ok with sharing it with him just so I can play with it. Also I am willing to sacrifice my clutch to beat @nlowell 's setup just to prove a point.

I am so down. Need test scenarios? Will write em. Need logs, validation, scientific freakin method? NP. What you need @Robftss ! XD

[07jazzrs5gt86]

With the new found power of the 300tq and constant improvement would upgrading the clutch to stage 1 be enough?
I'm thinking of getting a stage 2 clutch kit a few months down the line and would rather expect more than less so i don't have to redo it?

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I am so down. Need test scenarios? Will write em. Need logs, validation, scientific freakin method? NP. What you need @Robftss ! XD

And I'm a science teacher so I can validate all of these results.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by 07jazzrs5gt86

With the new found power of the 300tq and constant improvement would upgrading the clutch to stage 1 be enough?
I'm thinking of getting a stage 2 clutch kit a few months down the line and would rather expect more than less so i don't have to redo it?

I would highly doubt you would need a stage 2 with this power level

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

I am so down. Need test scenarios? Will write em. Need logs, validation, scientific freakin method? NP. What you need @Robftss ! XD

Hypothesis: TQ300 will produce more power and torque than the TQ250.

[silent runner]

Originally Posted by fenton

5.08 psi at 4300 rpm... Don't mind if I do

4.94psi at 4900

4.35psi at 5900

3.20psi at 7000

For my altitude and exhaust components these are amazing numbers. I found that my boost dropped a bit when I installed the header and track pipe just because it had a lot better flow.

I gotta think I'm getting close to the stock clutch limits

Attachment 88648

I kinda wonder about the same thing. The hp output with this set-up will be very impressive on a dyno, the torque numbers maybe still pretty impressive! How much would the "Scotty (Star Treck), engineers at Toyota/Scion/Subaro", over design this system? My old boosted Mazda 626, delt with a jump from 9.2psi to 12psi but barely, and that was within the stock tolerances of the wastgate controller. As soon as I "chipped" the ECU, to allow over 12psi, the stock clutch was useless. This was an engine rated at 190ft/lbs of torque (under-rated), that made 280ft/lbs at the wheels with 12psi. Mazda at the time, stuck an adapted RX-7-turbo, 5spd transmission in the car, and it broke constantly, for me and many others.
The clutch lasted only about 30k Km, before it would start to slip at the old 12psi number!

To a point, this stuff is fun and can still be reliable DD. It may even boost the car a whole class in straight line performance, but if you push too hard, there will be a price to pay for the fun.

Maybe its different now, but I'll just bet that Fentons current set-up is the outer reaches of what you can do and not break it regularly. I even think that if Fenton was not a relatively careful/skilled, sporty driver, it might already be breaking.

Thats my 2cts worth of 30 years of messing around with cars.

Feel free to abuse me now!

[fenton]

Originally Posted by silent runner

I kinda wonder about the same thing. The hp output with this set-up will be very impressive on a dyno, the torque numbers maybe still pretty impressive! How much would the "Scotty (Star Treck), engineers at Toyota/Scion/Subaro", over design this system? My old boosted Mazda 626, delt with a jump from 9.2psi to 12psi but barely, and that was within the stock tolerances of the wastgate controller. As soon as I "chipped" the ECU, to allow over 12psi, the stock clutch was useless. This was an engine rated at 190ft/lbs of torque (under-rated), that made 280ft/lbs at the wheels with 12psi. Mazda at the time, stuck an adapted RX-7-turbo, 5spd transmission in the car, and it broke constantly, for me and many others.
The clutch lasted only about 30k Km, before it would start to slip at the old 12psi number!

To a point, this stuff is fun and can still be reliable DD. It may even boost the car a whole class in straight line performance, but if you push too hard, there will be a price to pay for the fun.

Maybe its different now, but I'll just bet that Fentons current set-up is the outer reaches of what you can do and not break it regularly. I even think that if Fenton was not a relatively careful/skilled, sporty driver, it might already be breaking.

Thats my 2cts worth of 30 years of messing around with cars.

Feel free to abuse me now!

Stock clutch is good for 230tq. 250tq will dramatically reduce the clutch life.

The good thing is unlike some of the other kits we are making peak torque lower in the rpm band and for a shorter period of time. We aren't holding 220tq at redline or anything like that.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by silent runner

I kinda wonder about the same thing. The hp output with this set-up will be very impressive on a dyno, the torque numbers maybe still pretty impressive! How much would the "Scotty (Star Treck), engineers at Toyota/Scion/Subaro", over design this system? My old boosted Mazda 626, delt with a jump from 9.2psi to 12psi but barely, and that was within the stock tolerances of the wastgate controller. As soon as I "chipped" the ECU, to allow over 12psi, the stock clutch was useless. This was an engine rated at 190ft/lbs of torque (under-rated), that made 280ft/lbs at the wheels with 12psi. Mazda at the time, stuck an adapted RX-7-turbo, 5spd transmission in the car, and it broke constantly, for me and many others.
The clutch lasted only about 30k Km, before it would start to slip at the old 12psi number!

To a point, this stuff is fun and can still be reliable DD. It may even boost the car a whole class in straight line performance, but if you push too hard, there will be a price to pay for the fun.

Maybe its different now, but I'll just bet that Fentons current set-up is the outer reaches of what you can do and not break it regularly. I even think that if Fenton was not a relatively careful/skilled, sporty driver, it might already be breaking.

Thats my 2cts worth of 30 years of messing around with cars.

Feel free to abuse me now!

I love your closing statement. Brave. Well said!

The cost of the 300, once we know, will also be a factor to consider. If the price increases to the point in which it compares to other FI products consumers may lose interest. If the added stress from increased boost are also part of the equation why not traditional SC?

The ESC 250 is attractive to me because I believe their are few necessary supporting modes. Fewer parts equal less money and less maintenance. Overall easier to manage. Easy to install and uninstall. Powerful

If supporting mods I.e. ( oil cooler, catch can, clutch, tires etc) become a necessity . I would go traditional in a heart beat.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

I love your closing statement. Brave. Well said!

The cost of the 300, once we know, will also be a factor to consider. If the price increases to the point in which it compares to other FI products consumers may lose interest. If the added stress from increased boost are also part of the equation why not traditional SC?

The ESC 250 is attractive to me because I believe their are few necessary supporting modes. Fewer parts equal less money and less maintenance. Overall easier to manage. Easy to install and uninstall. Powerful

If supporting mods I.e. ( oil cooler, catch can, clutch, tires etc) become a necessity . I would go traditional in a heart beat.

Basically when you are considering traditional FI you know it's going to come to clutch eventually. With this we will probably still be below the clutch upgrade limit. Once you have to get a clutch that ruins the easy nature of this system. Don't get me wrong though....this system will still be cheaper than traditional FI when you have to buy a clutch for both.

[Target70]

I don't know, I think it would be nice to have the tq300, so you could run the same or slightly higher numbers on 91/93oct, vs the hassle of swapping to/from e85, with the tq250. And I say hassle because(some people have none) I have 1 store in my town that is closed by the time I get off work. I will have to switch back to 93 every time I go on trips.

I am just curious about the price. As the tq300 will require the dump upgrade to opperate, It should be included instead of the 1.0 configuration, and then requiring an additional $150 upgrade. Maybe ~$40 extra to cover the battery tray and the .5 block and connectors. I do not know the differences required in modifying the compressors or wheels in the 300 vs the 250, or the expense of the larger controller/wires. But I would not think it would add over 10% to the total cost. So base kit $1650 + 10% = $165 + $40 = $1855 + alt charger. Or 20% would give you roughly $2k + alt charger.

not to mention (I think) the 300 would be less of a restriction in that gray area between 50 and 75% throttle

[raven1231]

I think it will definitely come down to price point. If the TQ300 and aux charger is 2500 or less it will still be a viable upgrade. If not it will be nipping at the toes of the spd turbo, kraftwerks, avo and other traditional fi methods.