(Boosted) FRS vs S2000... Dezoris strikes again.

[vhx1]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Lol owning both has its perks.

WERD!!!

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by CSG David

It also means I'm broke.

Boost for boost using the same exact blower and PSI, there's a 100hp difference. LOL

Wait a minute, how much boost are you talking about 4psi???

Jaden

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Wait a minute, how much boost are you talking about 4psi???

Jaden

10 PSI. Actually there's a ~120hp difference, but I detuned for about 80-90hp difference. Both are on the same dyno and that S2k was being tuned in the summer while the BRZ was tested in the winter (which really doesn't make that much of a difference on that dyno).

Either way, both cars has its perks. Both are proven to work well on track. Both are capable of lapping excellent lap times given the right conditions and @CSG Mike driving.

[mit_peid]

boosted S2000 > boosted GT86 > S2000 > GT86 > Ford Pinto

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by mit_peid

boosted S2000 > boosted GT86 > S2000 > GT86 > Ford Pinto

The aero is better on the 86. Stock vs. stock, the 86 will keep up with the S2000 (gap won't change) from 100-130mph. Other than that, the 86 has a hard time pulling on an Integra GSR from freeway speeds. The real benefit of the 86 platform is in the corner. You'll be surprised at how much you'll gain with such a low drag body and stable platform. It's incredibly easy to drive an 86 over the S2000.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CSG David

The aero is better on the 86. Stock vs. stock, the 86 will keep up with the S2000 (gap won't change) from 100-130mph. Other than that, the 86 has a hard time pulling on an Integra GSR from freeway speeds. The real benefit of the 86 platform is in the corner. You'll be surprised at how much you'll gain with such a low drag body and stable platform. It's incredibly easy to drive an 86 over the S2000.

This happened in Mexico.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Based on that pull, I bet a TP on the s2k would effectively eliminate the advantage...

Interestingly enough unlike the 1.0 dump pack (battery setup) gasoline powered car in the video, my car has the 1.5x dump upgrade + E85. A TP equipped S2K would still get walked.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Interestingly enough unlike the 1.0 dump pack (battery setup) gasoline powered car in the video, my car has the 1.5x dump upgrade + E85. A TP equipped S2K would still get walked.

Well, if you're on E85, why not E85 the S2k and increase the redline a bit

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Wait a minute, how much boost are you talking about 4psi???

Jaden

@CSG David's gonna hate me. I keep telling people he's a lot faster than he lets on on this forum...

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Well, if you're on E85, why not E85 the S2k and increase the redline a bit

Because this isn't a discussion about equivalent mods. Even if it was, E85 does more for my FI FR-S than a NA S2K. This is more a demonstration of how easy and cheap it can be to makeup the power gap ($2k+2hrs) that can bring '86 owners to the same conclusion that Dezoris found. S2k is nice, I'm glad you like it so much. However if sold in today's dollars (inflation adjusted) would be around $45k. For that reason in my mind the cars shouldn't be compared. It's like comparing an S2K to a 2015 Boxster. It's simply another price class of car. In the case of the the 3, I'd take the FR-S and a few thousand in mods over either because I don't want a 2 seat roadster, I especially didn't want a 10ish year old daily driver (S2k) and I dont want to spend $60k+ (Boxster) on something I'm going to beat on. The '86 is simply a terrific and practical modern platform.

[AVodka14]

Looks like boost, suspension, exhaust, and wheels/tires will be a must for me next year. Warranty will be up and student loans paid off. Turbo time baby!

Oh and hopefully the single temp harness to swap to dual climate control. Fisher price knobs look tacky. All else is fine.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Because this isn't a discussion about equivalent mods. Even if it was, E85 does more for my FI FR-S than a NA S2K. This is more a demonstration of how easy and cheap it can be to makeup the power gap ($2k+2hrs) that can bring '86 owners to the same conclusion that Dezoris found. S2k is nice, I'm glad you like it so much. However if sold in today's dollars (inflation adjusted) would be around $45k. For that reason in my mind the cars shouldn't be compared. It's like comparing an S2K to a 2015 Boxster. It's simply another price class of car. In the case of the the 3, I'd take the FR-S and a few thousand in mods over either because I don't want a 2 seat roadster, I especially didn't want a 10ish year old daily driver (S2k) and I dont want to spend $60k+ (Boxster) on something I'm going to beat on. The '86 is simply a terrific and practical modern platform.

He's not even close to the redline on the FRS... 6600 rpm versus 8100 is the reason for the power difference.

Decrease the rotating mass on the twin and up the redline and it will do the same...

I had originally written something completely different(in the post that I asked if he was only running 4 psi) because that just didn't make any sense whatsoever.

The power that you can generate with a given FI compressor is directly related to how much air you can push(volume, not PSI) and how much timing you can run.

He's right, the e85 would definitely help out the 12.5:1 twin more than the 11:1 s2K because you can only advance the timing so much on either one. You can advance the timing more, while maintaining minimal detonation on the S2K because of the lower CR on pump gas, so you can't advance it as much more on E85 as you can with the twin because the twin can't be advanced as much on 91 as the S2K can.

IOW, you're able to advance the timing on the twin a greater amount when you switch to E85 from 91 than you can switching the S2K to E85 from 91.

With a 7400 natural redline on the twin, you should be able to reduce rotating mass via a lighter flywheel and harmonic balancer and up the redline to say 7800 and they will be much closer to each other on the same levels of boost.

When you put them both on E85 and can approximate the same timing advancement along with that, they should be almost identical in power levels for the same boost, (with the same compressor being used).

In my original post before I edited it, I asked which S2K engine he had, the 122CI or the 132 because that will make a difference too.

The more cubic inches, the more air it can gulp per revolution.

Now I've simplified this here, there are other differences involved, the VVT in both engines is different and the tune's utilization of it will vary the power levels too, so as I had said in the original unedited reply...

I'm talking out my ass here, with no direct tuner experience with the engines of either of these cars (yet) so take it for what it's worth, but on paper, the disparity should be no where near what they're seeing...

Jaden

p.s. notice that those dyno maps look almost identical until ~5400 rpm at which time they both slightly dip and then the S2K's goes right along that same initial slope but the twin's slope changes, my guess would be that that is where the timing advancement changes for the twin versus the S2K...

Wait a minute, now I'm confused, are BOTH of those maps for the S2K????

Then where is the map for the twin that is 100hp shy of the S2K????

[rice_classic]

86 vs S2k... Owned both.


I love that feeling.. you know that feeling, that one feeling you come to know and love.

That feeling that brings you so much joy and happiness about the 86.

That feeling of...

















Walking out to your car and the seats are still in it.

[thill]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

86 vs S2k... Owned both.


I love that feeling.. you know that feeling, that one feeling you come to know and love.

That feeling that brings you so much joy and happiness about the 86.

That feeling of...

















Walking out to your car and the seats are still in it.

Haha, nicely played!