Suberman's guide on how to make the car fix his inability to drive correctly.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by wparsons

They also claim the damping was stiffer on the FRS, which it isn't, but they theorized that stiffer damping made the car more tail happy.

Funny, you claimed stiffer damping made it less tail happy (which is false).

Just give up already.

I stopped reading when he said the only difference was the BRZ had softer rear springs. It does, but it also has firmer front springs too. If he can't even find that out when talking about spring rates, then his ability to string together facts to produce a logical outcome is highly suspect.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

If you want to increase rear traction you should increase front roll stiffness.

Increasing front roll stiffness, especially with a stiffer bar like you keep suggesting, doesn't increase rear traction, it decreases front traction.

It might feel like you've added rear grip because the balance has been shifted back, but if you look at cornering speeds you'll see you've actually hurt it.

[jebuwh]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Hey, it's my thread even though someone changed the title...

OK we really all just want to know what your racing and car tuning experience is? Please?

Mike and Dave actually race these cars. Not on gran turismo or forza. On real tracks, in real life.

Where did your wealth of knowledge come from?!

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by jebuwh

Where did your wealth of knowledge come from?!

.

[jebuwh]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

.

I saw that you quoted my post and got excited.

That sounds about right. That or out of his ass anyways.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

It is child's play to get the back end of these cars to step out, the FRS more so than the BRZ. That is actually a problem. You were pretty surprised the first time...but you did learn to drive later.

Any car can get the back out. ANY. I've trail braked a bone stock 2004 Neon in order to have the tail step out, it actually prevented an accident but that's one of those stories that no one would ever believe.

When I had the tail of my FRS step out I trail braked into an off camber corner, reved the engine, and then let out the clutch. My last car would have rotated beautifully, while I maintained my corner line with the gas. This car requires the driver not act like an idiot, so I stopped.

99% of drivers wouldn't know what trail braking is, let alone how to do it. They might happen upon it by accident, but that would be extensively rare. It's also why the nannies are there. It would be next to impossible to design a car that would never oversteer, without destroying every other aspect of the cars driving. So manufactures design cars that tend not to over steer and then rely on said nannies.

Have you tried setting a little more toe in at the rear?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Once more into the breach:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...?__federated=1

I don't expect anyone to quibble with this driver's expertise.

The BRZ is quicker, same day same driver same track.

The ONLY difference is the BRZ has softer rear springs. The suggestion that the dampers are different has been disproved by others posted to this BB I believe.

The driver's comments as to how the two cars feel and why the BRZ is likely faster are interesting.

Even more interesting would be testing the BRZ against itself with just a stiffer front bar. Should be even quicker because it will get its meagre power down a split second earlier.

Note the lap time margin is around 0.8 seconds, twice the margin achieved by fitting a clutch type lsd.

Tire pressures can be used to tweak handling, and the F1 boys do this also. In this case likely increasing the rear tire pressures is the way to go as tire pressure increases grip and does not affect roll stiffness.

Ditto lowering which changes the load transfer effects and in theory at least keeps the inside tire working harder for longer. Ironically, lowering reduces the load transfer which some here seem to think would be bad for handling.

Indeed, although I don't know the camber rise rates on these cars it seems very likely that front camber rise is at a lower rate than rear camber rise. If so then a quick and easy way to get better handling is to lower the car, assuming rear camber rise is at a higher rate but does not pass over the critical point. This would increase rear grip relative to the front and as long as you don't go crazy with spring rates you will improve front to rear balance in favour of understeer and go faster.

Us old guys already have trouble getting up to street level from the driver's seat so lowering the cars is not going to work well for us.

I called it! You're a bench racer!

Hint: There's this thing called journalistic freedom. It's what allows the real drivers to differentiate who is regurgitating what's on the internet and publications, vs what actually is.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I called it! You're a bench racer!.

He says proudly, identifying the obvious.

[stugray]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

He says proudly, identifying the obvious.

One of the things Ford Prefect had always found hardest to understand about humans was their habit of continually stating and repeating the very very obvious, as in It's a nice day, or You're very tall, or Oh dear you seem to have fallen down a thirty-foot well, are you all right? At first Ford had formed a theory to account for this strange behavior. If human beings don't keep exercising their lips, he thought, their mouths probably seize up.

"The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy"

[litemup]

Originally Posted by wparsons

Just for clarity, are you saying that in the sweeper it pushes, or wants to oversteer?

it pushes.

[litemup]

Originally Posted by Ubersuber

Are you sure? By shifting roll stiffness to the rear you aren't adding any grip to the rear tires. If you want to increase rear traction you should increase front roll stiffness.

...blabiddy blah blah blah superscientifical am i...

wow. i'm trying to fix a push.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I called it! You're a bench racer!

Bench racing huh? I don't think we have that series here but I was wondering how to get into it. The steering alignment looks completely out of kilter.

[OICU812]

This may in fact be one of those threads where it felt like one lost brain cells reading it? Lol

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by OICU812

This may in fact be one of those threads where it felt like one lost brain cells reading it? Lol

This reminds me of a song but I can't remember what it's called.
It went something like this:


Some of my brain cells are missing
Happened while I was pissing
Against the impervious wall
Of Ubersuber's scrawl
Or maybe it happened when I crashed in the race
Where my bench couldn't handle the pace
All of this I really don't care
I have a few brain cells to spare