The "Pedal Dance" testing

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Porsche

So, would you recommend pulling the ABS fuse, then?

Note: I DISLIKE ABS, and would like to pull the fuse, but I worry about unintended consequences. The loss of EBD concerns me with a possible brake imbalance.

I'd be interested in your thoughts about this, Renfield.

I've spent most of my life driving cars without today's nannies, and the "loss" of them is not a concern to me.

ABS robs me of the life-saving ability to arrest any further change in direction. I WANT to be able to lock 'em up when I need to.

I would be pulling mine already if it weren't illegal in my class. I'd rather wad the car up myself than have the electronics do it for me.

The pedal dance already kills your EBD. My personal opinion is that it pushes the brake balance a little bit to the rear compared to when EBD is active, and/or (perhaps more accurately) the EBD doesn't take action to keep the rear from coming around under braking. I wouldn't call it imbalanced, but you will need to manage that balance without any help.

I would be more concerned about a pulled ABS fuse putting the car into some kind of limp mode, although I think our ECU designers were kind to us about that. Haven't tested though - since I have to live with it, my mission has been to change my driving style to avoid ABS.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by fooddude

Question about ice-mode:

Ok..so I read it happens in pedal-dance-mode during super fast pedal to braking and also deep in abs.

But..does ice-mode happen only particularly in pedal-dance-mode?

Or, does/can it happen also in regular non-pedal-dance-mode? Both, or either, vsc/trc on and off?

...in other words..is possible ice-mode a permanent fixture of the car, and can/possibly happen, regardless of what mode/setting or what you deactivate on the car?

If ABS is active, ice mode is possible. Think of this system as layered:

VSC/TC
EBD
ABS
Hardware (your actual brakes)

Each time you go up a layer, it builds on what the layer(s) below offer - Stability control works because EBD can modulate brake power individually to each wheel, and EBD can do that because there's an ABS system that can tell EBD if it brakes too hard on a wheel.

Pushing the traction control button for five seconds disables the top layer.

Pedal dance disables the top two layers.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by renfield90

If ABS is active, ice mode is possible. Think of this system as layered:

VSC/TC
EBD
ABS
Hardware (your actual brakes)

Each time you go up a layer, it builds on what the layer(s) below offer - Stability control works because EBD can modulate brake power individually to each wheel, and EBD can do that because there's an ABS system that can tell EBD if it brakes too hard on a wheel.

Pushing the traction control button for five seconds disables the top layer.

Pedal dance disables the top two layers.

You beat me to it.

The stock system is a slightly rear biased, but not horribly so. IMO, it's good for trail braking

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by renfield90

My personal opinion is that it pushes the brake balance a little bit to the rear compared to when EBD is active, and/or (perhaps more accurately) the EBD doesn't take action to keep the rear from coming around under braking.

A rearward bias would mean the rears would lock up first, before the fronts, yes?

In that case, threshold (and beyond) braking, downhill in the wet, without ABS, for instance, would lead to the car swapping ends in a heartbeat.

Is this correct?

If so, then one MUST have functioning ABS, short of modifying the car and installing a brake proportioning system.

If the above is correct, then pulling the ABS fuse would be disastrous, a crash on the way to happening.

Either that, or I'm confused.

A minimalist Caterham 7 looks increasingly attractive to this old boy.

[feldy]

After this weekend I am now a full fan of the pedal dance. I normally brake in a straight line so ice mode does not happen often. I had a co-driver who is used to trail braking and with the hawk plus pads up front and factory in the rear it was going into ice mode. We have events back to back this weekend so I was able to get about 15 runs testing it. With the pedal dance done straight line braking was even better. pedal dance for the win.

[mla163]

I used this to fix a WTF spin at an autocross yesterday. I spun on the first run without pedal dance and was fine on the next few with the pedal dance.

I DID get ice mode with the pedal dance activated.

[DaDr00]

Took the FR-S out for her maiden autocross on the road course and had no issues with threshold breaking after using the Pedal Dance.

[glamcem]

I couldn't do it even after letting the car fully warmed up between sessions. I have followed the same exact procedure but it didn't work for some reason.. I was trying at the last couple event and it only worked once :/

[Sleepless]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I couldn't do it even after letting the car fully warmed up between sessions. I have followed the same exact procedure but it didn't work for some reason.. I was trying at the last couple event and it only worked once :/

I found you have to be quite quick in completing the sequence after starting the car.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Sleepless

I found you have to be quite quick in completing the sequence after starting the car.

I remember someone mentioned that he let the car idle for a while, interesting

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by glamcem

I remember someone mentioned that he let the car idle for a while, interesting

What I do:

warm car
Restart car (with parking brake on + foot on brake pedal)
Rev engine if RPMs don't drop immediately (rev 2-3 times to get RPMs to drop)
with foot on brake, pump parking brake 3 times, then brake pedal 3x, etc... after the 3rd sequence the procedure is complete

The RPMs do have to drop for this to happen. That's the only way you can verify, since it's the ECU's way of saying "engine's warm, no need for fast idle"

-alex

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by mav1178

What I do:

warm car
Restart car (with parking brake on + foot on brake pedal)
Rev engine if RPMs don't drop immediately (rev 2-3 times to get RPMs to drop)
with foot on brake, pump parking brake 3 times, then brake pedal 3x, etc... after the 3rd sequence the procedure is complete

The RPMs do have to drop for this to happen. That's the only way you can verify, since it's the ECU's way of saying "engine's warm, no need for fast idle"

-alex

I will give another shot after driving around a bit..at the track, I remember running the car for about 5 minutes and checking the oil temps too ..maybe I wasn't quick enough but in the video (someone posted earlier) he wasn't really that fast either..

[troek]

just to lay out all out clearly: you get approx 30 seconds after the car starts to complete this. car must be fully warmed up, it dosnt work for me until water temps are around 190. shut the car off and restart it, pull e brake 3 times, leave it up on the 3rd pull. pump brake pedal 3 times, keep it pressed on 3rd pump, pull e brake 3 times, leaving it up once again, press brake pedal 2 more times.

[chris912]

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