Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

I agree. If it can survive CSG_Mike then we know its legit. I have never driven Buttonwillow, but my guess its a smaller course similar to Streets of Willow? Now rob is testing the 4:1 aux charger vs what everyone else has which is 8:1. So that might help substantially at the track.

"Three separate tracks, West loop: 1.86 miles, East loop: 1.06 miles, combined track: 3.1 miles"

http://buttonwillowraceway.com/track-info/track-facts/

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Not judging anyone just speaking in general. I would love to contribute but without some empirical evidence and Rob fully supporting the product for track applications I can't buy in. I've been watching the development on this platform closely since the beginning and I truly want it to become truly "trackable" but right now I'm skeptical and will reserve judgement until some more loyal testers get out and prove us all wrong.

I don't think anyone is trying to get you to buy anything. Skepticism is easy, contributions don't necessarily involve a purchase. With the amount of time you spend on the track, your anecdotal input to critical endpoints could have a lot of value. Why sit back and eat popcorn when your experiences can help shape the design of a kit/mods you might just end up buying or building?

I'd love to hear your thoughts/experience on end points like:

1. Length of straights at the tracks you visit (to know how long the ESC will need to be "on boost")

2. Throttle position & cornering speeds at your tracks (to see how adaptable the ESC is to those corners)

3. Average track temps you've encountered (to add to data for ESC thermal tolerance pool)

4. What other key pieces of data can help shape the hardware you might one day buy?

However, an important point, you don't have to be proven wrong for something to be true. And who are the "us all" in your last sentence?

I've followed your build thread on Melanie as long as you've had it. It's really great. You're an active and interested driver. You make cost conscious and wise decisions on parts. Right up the alley of an ESC owner.

Not sure of his timeline, but I don't think Rob is going to officially support the ESC for track applications anytime soon. In my opinion, it's going to be up to the owners for now (with his watchful eye) above. For the cost, I don't have a problem with that.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

The enthusiasm is the sound of a satisfied owner. Odd to car forums that are generally filled with dissatisfied voices, trolls (overt or in attempted disguise), competing vendors with F.U.D. attempts, or worse. In the case of ESCs in general my prediction is that there will continue to be a growing chorus of content voices like the many you read here.

Yep. The criticism is odd, isn't it? One night a week or two ago, I came across two threads in which it was my opinion that the OP might be interested in the Phantom ESC. So I posted about it and "plugged" it on both threads - here was my plug in one thread where the guy was complaining about a hybrid with a near 10 second 0-60 time being nearly as quick as his car:

--------------------

"Any decent launch will net you high 6s or low 7s in a BRZ/FRS. It's hard to do any worse than low 7s in a 6MT if you're actually trying.

To get in the mid 6s on a stock car, you need to spin the tires at about 4000-4500 rpm. Unless of course you go FI.

You can get down to the high 5s for $2000 to $2500 with the Phantom Electric Supercharger kit... "

---------------------

The response I got from one person was:

----------------------

"Can you stop plugging it everywhere? Two posts in a row which I happened to see. I am actually down for an RHD kit but this seems excessive and remotely on topic."

-----------------

He was upset at me for hyping the product TWO TIMES. LOL. I don't think I had posted about the ESC on this board in a thread that was not directly related to the ESC until that evening.

My ranting (and perhaps amusing to some) response to his being annoyed is below...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1772086

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by robwbright

Yep. The criticism is odd, isn't it? One night a week or two ago, I came across two threads in which it was my opinion that the OP might be interested in the Phantom ESC. So I posted about it and "plugged" it on both threads - here was my plug in one thread where the guy was complaining about a hybrid with a near 10 second 0-60 time being nearly as quick as his car:



--------------------



"Any decent launch will net you high 6s or low 7s in a BRZ/FRS. It's hard to do any worse than low 7s in a 6MT if you're actually trying.



To get in the mid 6s on a stock car, you need to spin the tires at about 4000-4500 rpm. Unless of course you go FI.



You can get down to the high 5s for $2000 to $2500 with the Phantom Electric Supercharger kit... "



---------------------



The response I got from one person was:



----------------------



"Can you stop plugging it everywhere? Two posts in a row which I happened to see. I am actually down for an RHD kit but this seems excessive and remotely on topic."



-----------------



He was upset at me for hyping the product TWO TIMES. LOL. I don't think I had posted about the ESC on this board in a thread that was not directly related to the ESC until that evening.



My ranting (and perhaps amusing to some) response to his being annoyed is below...



http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1772086

Unfortunately the criticism in a lot of cases was valid. After the market was flooded with cheap eBay rip offs a lot of people were turned off by electric superchargers.

We just need to keep plugging away at these misconceptions and make sure we tell the whole truth and produce accurate data for all to analyze. This is the only way the phantom esc will be fully accepted.


@atl_brz isn't knocking the system (maybe the drivers :p). He just wants some empirical data from a seasoned race driver. Unfortunately there aren't any seasoned drivers with the system yet. Though @nlowell is getting better.

Let's just keep chipping away at these stereotypes and everyone will be better for it.

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Unfortunately the criticism in a lot of cases was are valid. After the market was flooded with cheap eBay rip offs a lot of people were turned off by electric superchargers.

We just need to keep plugging away at these misconceptions and make sure we tell the whole truth and produce accurate data for all to analyze. This is the only way the phantom esc will be fully accepted.


@atl_brz isn't knocking the system (maybe the drivers :p). He just wants some empirical data from a seasoned race driver. Unfortunately there aren't any seasoned drivers with the system yet. Though @nlowell is getting better.

Let's just keep chipping away at these stereotypes and everyone will be better for it.

I was referring to the criticism for merely being excited about the product and telling people about it... I understand why people are skeptical about the system itself... I was, too, initially.

[TM]

FWIW, Rob has tracked many cars for many years and used to be a BMW driving school instructor at a local road course. He said that a track usable FI is minimum $5-6k on any car.

"Track-usable" is not the same as a purpose-built FI kit. Of course, it can still be used on the track, but has it's limits and is less than ideal.

Battery and cooling mods will add to the cost and complexity of the kit. Conversion tray - $210, aux charger - $300-400, vented hood - $750, etc. That's why a traditional FI kit is still the best route to go for track environments.

I'm not saying that the ESC won't eventually be upgraded to a point that would make it be a great option for track usage. Technology is driven by wants and needs. And it moves at an incredibly fast pace.

But as for now, I'm having a blast with the extra boost in power on the streets. On the tracks, I'm still working on improving myself before performance, and I still have a long way to go.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Unfortunately the criticism in a lot of cases was valid. After the market was flooded with cheap eBay rip offs a lot of people were turned off by electric superchargers.

We just need to keep plugging away at these misconceptions and make sure we tell the whole truth and produce accurate data for all to analyze. This is the only way the phantom esc will be fully accepted.


@atl_brz isn't knocking the system (maybe the drivers :p). He just wants some empirical data from a seasoned race driver. Unfortunately there aren't any seasoned drivers with the system yet. Though @nlowell is getting better.

Let's just keep chipping away at these stereotypes and everyone will be better for it.

Originally Posted by robwbright

I was referring to the criticism for merely being excited about the product and telling people about it... I understand why people are skeptical about the system itself... I was, too, initially.

Thomas Knight is the only other person (that I am aware of) to have an actual concept of how an electric supercharger should be operated. I would like to be a fly on the wall during a think tank between TK and Rob. That could be a serious ground breaking event.

[neutron256]

Originally Posted by jdv14476

Thomas Knight is the only other person (that I am aware of) to have an actual concept of how an electric supercharger should be operated. I would like to be a fly on the wall during a think tank between TK and Rob. That could be a serious ground breaking event.

Lots of people/companies have been working on this concept many of which have developed purpose built compressors and motors. Most however are focused on it being marketed to manufacturers not individuals like the Phantom Setup. As of yet there seems to be little interest from the industry despite all the consumer interest we see here.

[WNDSRFR]

I see a lot of interest here lately for using the phantom for track use.



That really isn't what it was designed for.
If you are going to race your car please get turbocharger.


The phantom is the perfect solution to the limitations of the stock 2L engine for street use. It fills in the torque dip completely and makes the car a pleasure to drive.


But really, if you want to race, you're going to have to spend the big bucks.


One way or another.

[juliog]

Talking to a fellow FR-S owner yesterday at Buttonwillow Raceway Park, he was running the Phantom ESC, and said he could do 10-15 min (20 min sessions) before the controller overheated and pulled power. Not bad considering the 100F ambient temperatures!

He had a vented CF hood, and also had routed a hose from the left fog light into the controller for extra cooling.

[Blu-by-U]

Just saying TK was looking at a universal platform. Everyone seems to have a concept, just saying it would be fun to listen into a think tank between the two. There are many other ideas and thoughts about the subject.

Originally Posted by neutron256

Lots of people/companies have been working on this concept many of which have developed purpose built compressors and motors. Most however are focused on it being marketed to manufacturers not individuals like the Phantom Setup. As of yet there seems to be little interest from the industry despite all the consumer interest we see here.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by juliog

Talking to a fellow FR-S owner yesterday at Buttonwillow Raceway Park, he was running the Phantom ESC, and said he could do 10-15 min (20 min sessions) before the controller overheated and pulled power. Not bad considering the 100F ambient temperatures!

He had a vented CF hood, and also had routed a hose from the left fog light into the controller for extra cooling.

Think that was nolowell

[Target70]

just an fyi, I don't plan on tracking my car. I just wanted the vent because cool electronics are longer lasting electronics

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by shif7i7down

The whp output will be different from dyno to dyno we all know that, but there's no misconceptions here. It's stock number vs fi number. Both read roughly the same stock whp output and very close fi whp output.
So dyno numbers speaks for themself, The"claim" is my own personal thought and of course is subjective but You believe what you want to believe, as for me...dynos dont lie.

The comparison is not to see who makes the most hp. It's only to show fi whp vs stock hp increase. If you think that the stage 1 avo turbo kit is too low for your liking then you should contact the owner of that kit and ask him, I'm only quoting a post he put up in the dyno fi thread. Of course if you go to stage 2 avo turbo,the esc would lose in comparison. ^_^

Edit; maybe i should be a little clearer with my belief as to why i feel the esc is a better buy.
1. Stock hp vs FI hp increase ratio.
2. Price between the kits.
3. Ease of installation.
4. Simplicity of the kits, i installed the esc kit in 2hrs with minimal knowledge on fi systems. Would i beable to install the avo kit myself....maybe ....i could who knows.

Hi. I've been preaching the benefits of Rob's creation long before you even popped up on this massive thread. I know the pluses and minuses well. For what it is, it's brilliant. Dynos don't lie - but they're quite often misinterpreted. Don't take my word for it though, go ahead and run against someone with a *decently tuned* AVO kit, I promise not to say "I told you so" after