Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[shif7i7down]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

... and by the way... My post above is not to start an Phantom ESC war vs. other Stg 1 FI kits. It's to illustrate the value of the Phantom ESC and OFT tune. Party on.

LOL, like a BOSS

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

[*]"Trackable" with $35 upgrade (thanks @Thatruth2001 @nlowell @Sojhinn @Target70)

Can you expand on this please? Are the batteries now lasting or able to recharge at a rate that would last a 20 minute session with lots of WOT on a road course? Without overheating the controller? Or is that why you put it in quotations since it would run out well before and would require a toggle modification to manage available boost voltage?

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Can you expand on this please? Are the batteries now lasting or able to recharge at a rate that would last a 20 minute session with lots of WOT on a road course? Without overheating the controller? Or is that why you put it in quotations since it would run out well before and would require a toggle modification to manage available boost voltage?

I think it was in reference to heat issues.

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Can you expand on this please? Are the batteries now lasting or able to recharge at a rate that would last a 20 minute session with lots of WOT on a road course? Without overheating the controller? Or is that why you put it in quotations since it would run out well before and would require a toggle modification to manage available boost voltage?

The issues with the batteries has not been running out of charge but rather the controller hitting thermal safeties. We have been testing an air duct to push cooler air across the controller and have had great success. @nlowell did multiple 20 minutes sessions yesterday and the the controller only hit the fail safe once during the last session of the day when the ambient temperature hit 105 degrees Fahrenheit.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by nlowell

At Buttonwillow - 97 degrees out - happy to report that the ESC just survived a full 20 minute (correction: 25 minute!) session! It was in 26.6 mode early on but kept feeding me power the whole session! And DAMN was it fun!! =)

Details on your controller cooling modifications? Any video footage of your laps to share?

[Sojhinn]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Details on your controller cooling modifications? Any video footage of your laps to share?

I can help answer this. The cooling mod is utilizing an air duct from the fog lamp location to the engine bay. The duct is just pointing at the air controller.

As for the lap footage I'm waiting for this too. He recorded it at button willow but is not going to be able to post it for a few days.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Details on your controller cooling modifications? Any video footage of your laps to share?

Robs ESC is great. I was impressed with it from a strictly autocross street setup. But this setup will be no means be trackable at any decent road course. Battery technology is just not there. With other Stg 1 kits this is where the extra money you pay. IMO If was building a nice street canyon carver and auto-X twin, this is what I would build

ECS + 1.5 dump pack
OFT
drop in filter
nameless axleback
MPSS in stock rim size
RCE Yellows or other mild drop(1inch max)
spacers (10-20mm) squared
new brake pads
new brake fluid

Yes I know that this cost quite a bit of cash, but this would completely transform this car vs just most entry level FI kits done right.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

Can you expand on this please? Are the batteries now lasting or able to recharge at a rate that would last a 20 minute session with lots of WOT on a road course? Without overheating the controller? Or is that why you put it in quotations since it would run out well before and would require a toggle modification to manage available boost voltage?

HAHA a lot of answers prior to mine. Will post it anyhow.

Sure thing, as you know, even though the Phantom ESC is designed to be used on the street, many owners want to push that limit for track sessions/AutoX. So they've been working on addressing the couple of issues the ESC had a couple for track suitability. Keep in mind that track usage is not supported by @Robftss at this point.

1. Battery capacity
2. ESC Controller thermal management

Since the ESC is designed for the street, thermal management built into it's controller has the capacity to be used only for several consecutive WOT pulls. However, as you also know very well, the track is much more demanding than that. So, by first testing the ESCs thermal limits (@ThaTruth2001 @nlowell ), then designing a cooling solution for that @nlowell @Sojhinn @Target70) have designed a simple duct system to draw cool air to the controller (similar to a brake duct kit). Results from the past few weeks have been positive as @nlowell has reported no performance issues even with his 25 minute track sessions.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=6004

Please note that @nlowell also has a vented hood. I'm sure he can add details to this. Recently @nlowell or @Sojhinn and @Target70 produced a DIY for their versions of this mod post a page or so back.

Adding a second set of dump batteries both increases the amount of power that can be dumped into the compressor (adding roughly .5 lbs of boost) as well as increasing "time on boost" while at WOT.

There's a third issue, but not certain if I'd call that a limitation. It's the part-time nature of the the ESC activation (the "full throttle") aspect. IMO this is less of a limitation as it might seem because in most tight corners, drivers are rarely at WOT. Part throttle performance then defaults back to NA where throttle can be modulated and the cars dynamic attitude controlled as normal. Learning to work with the WOT switch might then be similar to working with a standard Turbo (and it's lag characteristics) on the track, but the ESC has more linear torque characteristics because we're only talking about up to ~210ish WTQ so its not going to cause a huge surge of torque mid corner even if you're not using finesse with the throttle mid-corner.

More track session should suss this out, but as of know this is all looking very promising.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Robs ESC is great. I was impressed with it from a strictly autocross street setup. But this setup will be no means be trackable at any decent road course. Battery technology is just not there. With other Stg 1 kits this is where the extra money you pay. IMO I was building a nice street canyon carver and auto-X, this is what I build

ECS + 1.5 dump pack
OFT
drop in filter
nameless axleback
MPSS in stock rim size
RCE Yellows or other mild drop(1inch max)
spacers (10-20mm) squared
new brake pads
new brake fluid

Yes I know that this cost quite a bit of cash, but this would completely transform this car vs just most entry level FI kits done right.

Great mods, @ATL BRZ just came from Yellows and is headed to RC Tarmac 2s:

As far as any decent road course goes, see here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=6004

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

But this setup will be no means be trackable at any decent road course. Battery technology is just not there. With other Stg 1 kits this is where the extra money you pay.

This is my understanding as well.

Others here seem to think the controller can be cooled which would make it last on track with an extra dump pack. Interesting to hear there are no voltage or recharging rate issues for 20 minute sessions.

I really need to see some in cabin footage of the ESC on a road course to see what the voltage drop is like over a full session to ease my skepticism about a track application. Hearing that they aren't running out of juice early seems questionable and may be the driver's experience coming in to play (not as much time spent in WOT as seasoned track veteran would be). I'd love to see @CSG Mike drive one of your cars at Buttonwillow and see how it performs.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

This is my understanding as well.

Others here seem to think the controller can be cooled which would make it last on track with an extra dump pack. Interesting to hear there are no voltage or recharging rate issues for 20 minute sessions.

I really need to see some in cabin footage of the ESC on a road course to see what the voltage drop is like over a full session to ease my skepticism about a track application. Hearing that they aren't running out of juice early seems questionable and may be the driver's experience coming in to play (not as much time spent in WOT as seasoned track veteran would be). I'd love to see @CSG Mike drive one of your cars at Buttonwillow and see how it performs.

I agree. If it can survive CSG_Mike then we know its legit. I have never driven Buttonwillow, but my guess its a smaller course similar to Streets of Willow? Now rob is testing the 4:1 aux charger vs what everyone else has which is 8:1. So that might help substantially at the track.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

This is my understanding as well.

Others here seem to think the controller can be cooled which would make it last on track with an extra dump pack. Interesting to hear there are no voltage or recharging rate issues for 20 minute sessions.

I really need to see some in cabin footage of the ESC on a road course to see what the voltage drop is like over a full session. Hearing that they aren't running out of juice early seems questionable and may be the driver's experience coming in to play (not as much time spent in WOT as seasoned track veteran would be). I'd love to see @CSG Mike drive one of your cars at Buttonwillow and see how it performs.

The gap is closing fast.

Speaking for myself as an early adopter, I've chose to be part of the development process rather than wait for a perfectly finished product. It's great to be able to contribute. No disrespect, but I wouldn't jump to judge the driving ability or experience of those who I don't know. There are owners at many levels in this thread (even Rob and Shiv have plenty of seat time themselves). I don't need it to be suitable for @CSG_Mike , I need it to work for me. Lastly, once again, this is a street kit that owners are begining to adapt for their own personal usage. Why not jump in and contribute too?

[shif7i7down]

I had a conversion with the dyno operator on Friday because the low whp reading i got during the dyno session was bothering me, and this is what he said, tell me if it makes sense or if he's just bsing.

He said he didn't know what the frs 4th gear ratio was so he didn't want to guess and that the dyno session was done with the expectation that 4th gear is a 1:1 ratio, so if i really wanted to know the calculated 1;1 ratio whp. I have to take my 4th gear ratio(Which is 1.213 btw) and subtract the average 15~17% rwd drive train lost(Which is.15~.17) and multiply it to the dyno number.

That's 1.213-.17 = 1.043 then multiply by my 186whp and it gives me 193.998whp.

The number looks right, but would that be the best way to do it?

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

The gap is closing fast.

Speaking for myself as an early adopter, I've chose to be part of the development process rather than wait for a perfectly finished product. It's great to be able to contribute. No disrespect, but I wouldn't jump to judge the driving ability or experience of those who I don't know. There are owners at many levels in this thread (even Rob and Shiv have plenty of seat time themselves). Lastly, once again, this is a street kit that owners are begging to adapt for their own personal usage. Why not jump in and contribute too?

Not judging anyone just speaking in general. I would love to contribute but without some empirical evidence and Rob fully supporting the product for track applications I can't buy in. I've been watching the development on this platform closely since the beginning and I want it to become truly "trackable" but right now I'm skeptical and will reserve judgement until some more loyal testers get out and prove us all wrong.