Autocar: BRZ vs. MX-5 vs. 370Z

[SteelReign]

"...they look like blunt, dull communicators here..."

This is the best line of the whole article. I thought the MX-5 was totally telepathic and communicated the best any car could. Can't wait to take it for a spin!

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

Im curious as to what people who are considering the BRZ/FRS actually drive now.

If power is a major consideration it would put into perspective what they are coming from, whether its a 100hp slowass econobox tin can, a 300hp family car that has no semblance of driving feel whatsoever, a 300hp SUV that feels like its gonna tip over at a 1 degree turn, or a 600hp beastmode supercar that costs an arm, a leg, your first born, and your house.

I have an Eclipse GSX which has a 2.0L inline 4 with 210 hp, 214 lb ft of torque, and weighs 3200 lbs. I am pretty happy with the power of this car. Sometimes I wish I had a little more like 250 hp but it comes with a tiny turbo so there is very little lag. However, get it below boost under 2500 rpm and it has nothing to give. This is why I prefer naturally aspirated six cylinders. They typically have a nice linear and responsive range of power.

Previously I had a 2001 2.5L V6 Mercury Cougar which made 170hp/165 lb ft torque and weighed about 3000 lbs. That engine was decent but still felt a little underwhelming due to its smaller size and heavier weight.

My mom has a 3.8L V6 Eclipse making 265 hp and 262 lb ft of torque and it weighs about 3600 lbs. The engine has a good, responsive power band but the car is obviously not very good at handling since it weighs so much and is front wheel drive.

My dad has an Evo X MR with a turbo inline 4 with 300hp/295 lb ft of torque and weighs about 3400 lbs. It is quick, maybe even too quick to safely have fun on the roads. And because of the big turbo, the power comes in later in the rev range so it's not as linear.

And I've driven many other cars over the years so I have a pretty good idea of what kind of engine I prefer. My ideal engine would be a 3.0L Boxer 6. But I'm thinking a 2.5L Boxer 4 may be the best engine for the BRZ/FR-S.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

I have an Eclipse GSX which has a 2.0L inline 4 with 210 hp, 214 lb ft of torque, and weighs 3200 lbs. I am pretty happy with the power of this car. Sometimes I wish I had a little more like 250 hp but it comes with a tiny turbo so there is very little lag. However, get it below boost under 2500 rpm and it has nothing to give. This is why I prefer naturally aspirated six cylinders. They typically have a nice linear and responsive range of power.

Previously I had a 2001 2.5L V6 Mercury Cougar which made 170hp/165 lb ft torque and weighed about 3000 lbs. That engine was decent but still felt a little underwhelming due to its smaller size and heavier weight.

My mom has a 3.8L V6 Eclipse making 265 hp and 262 lb ft of torque and it weighs about 3600 lbs. The engine has a good, responsive power band but the car is obviously not very good at handling since it weighs so much and is front wheel drive.

My dad has an Evo X MR with a turbo inline 4 with 300hp/295 lb ft of torque and weighs about 3400 lbs. It is quick, maybe even too quick to safely have fun on the roads. And because of the big turbo, the power comes in later in the rev range so it's not as linear.

And I've driven many other cars over the years so I have a pretty good idea of what kind of engine I prefer. My ideal engine would be a 3.0L Boxer 6. But I'm thinking a 2.5L Boxer 4 may be the best engine for the BRZ/FR-S.

No SC cars? Specially 4 cylinders ones? If you have a chance, you should try em out. You might like the feel of SC.

[Daemione]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im just saying it easier to appreciate more power than more handling as far as commuting tasks go.

Huh, I disagree. In a typical commute, how many chances do you get to really open up the throttle for more than 3 seconds at a time? My daily driver is slow (a '79 280zx, with a whopping 135hp), and I still run up the butt of every car in front of me if I let myself.

Handling, on the other hand, is a difference you can feel and appreciate every time you turn the wheel, whether you're close to the cars limits or not.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Chill, just chill. Put away your weapons & shields. You're getting crazy work up for simple question. I'm not expecting right answer from my question. I'm not trying to argue, just trying to get simple opinion.

If he answer "240hp", I would of responded "Cool, bro ". If he say "900hp" then... well maybe I would of responded "You're on crack".

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue with you guys. I'm just to get rid of some of the confusion here. It has helped clear up my thoughts about it too. I design cars in my spare time so I am kind of passionate about these things so I apologize if I sounded like I was getting worked up or upset. It's just annoying when people keep going to extremes and get on the offensive when somebody says they worry about it not being powerful enough. I think that is (usually) a totally legitimate concern from a potential customer. I'm sure all of us want this car to be as good as it can be.

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

No SC cars? Specially 4 cylinders ones? If you have a chance, you should try em out. You might like the feel of SC.

SC? Sorry, is that Subaru? I have driven some Subarus before yes. I was surprised at the smoothness of the boxer engine considering the rumbling noise it made.

[Ryephile]

Fantastic comparison article! I'm getting a warm fuzzy reading how the steering feel is fantastic and communicative, and how the chassis is precise and balanced. To read that they prefer the BRZ over the Miata is landmark praise.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

SC? Sorry, is that Subaru? I have driven some Subarus before yes. I was surprised at the smoothness of the boxer engine considering the rumbling noise it made.

Sorry, SC = Supercharger

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Sorry, SC = Supercharger

Ahh, no I have not. My uncle has a supercharged Jaguar I've been meaning to try though. However, I don't particularly like the idea of superchargers for daily drivers since they add reciprocating mass and use more fuel.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

Ahh, no I have not. My uncle has a supercharged Jaguar I've been meaning to try though. However, I don't particularly like the idea of superchargers for daily drivers since they add reciprocating mass and use more fuel.

That may be true... but you get the feeling of more liter engine out of less liter engine.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Bristecom

I don't particularly like the idea of superchargers for daily drivers since they add reciprocating mass and use more fuel.

Positive displacement superchargers [Roots, TVS], have bypass valves that de-baffle the rotors and thus impact fuel economy virtually nil when cruising under vacuum. They only use markedly more fuel under boost, obviously.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Daemione

Huh, I disagree. In a typical commute, how many chances do you get to really open up the throttle for more than 3 seconds at a time? My daily driver is slow (a '79 280zx, with a whopping 135hp), and I still run up the butt of every car in front of me if I let myself.

Handling, on the other hand, is a difference you can feel and appreciate every time you turn the wheel, whether you're close to the cars limits or not.

how many chances to you get to use all your lateral grip or maximum braking for 3 seconds? its not about using all the power all the time. its about not having to downshift at every hill or lane change.

that last part, while true doesnt mean anything. you could just replace "handling" with "power" and "turn the wheel" with "push the throttle"

[NESW20]

what's wrong with downshifting?

[Bristecom]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Positive displacement superchargers [Roots, TVS], have bypass valves that de-baffle the rotors and thus impact fuel economy virtually nil when cruising under vacuum. They only use markedly more fuel under boost, obviously.

Interesting. I think I heard Toyota/Subaru may actually add a supercharger to the FA20? Do you think that would be a good idea?