Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

[calidus]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.

I am putting this in the OP.

[tracerit]

now that it's hot in southern California, it's a bitch driving with the AC on. RPMs drop so quick and my 1-2 shifts are so sloppy :/

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by calidus

I am putting this in the OP.

It's true in just about anything requiring mechanical dexterity. Everything from fly-fishing to shifting to piano playing to acquiring a target & shooting it with a firearm.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by tracerit

now that it's hot in southern California, it's a bitch driving with the AC on. RPMs drop so quick and my 1-2 shifts are so sloppy :/

I live in SoCal too, it is indeed hot right now. I hate it. But having the AC on or off should not affect your driving. It doesn't for me anyway. Maybe a tad if the engine and tranny are cold.


As others have said before, it's all about feathering when moving out of standstill and the 1 -> 2 shift. Putting the clutch in and moving the shifter from 1->2 can happen almost simultaneously. You need to do that part quickly. The slow and smooth part is when letting the clutch out with gas. I think that can be misleading to new drivers. It's not really a perfect teeder-todder motion. I get to the engagement point a slip second before the throttle responds. This way the clutch helps brings the engine speed down.

If you don't feather it, it'll jerk. Even if you timed it perfectly. If you dropped the clutch even when the engine and tranny speeds are matched, it'll STILL jerk.

Think of it this way.
A moving object that instantly comes to a stop will jerk. Obviously.
But also, an accelerating object that instantly comes to a constant speed will also jerk.

Thats what's happening in the engine. The prime mover of the engine, is slowing down once you let the clutch in. It's decelerating. If you let the clutch out too fast without feathering, then your forcing the decelerating engine to instantaneously start moving at a constant speed. Thats what causes the jolt. The transmission is loading the engine, rather than the other way around. I think people are so keen on making their clutch last, that they forget it's designed to slip and provide smooth transitions.

[DriftFreak]

Thanks for this helpful thread. I have a few questions though. When you have to inch forward, I always have to clutch in halfway. If I let out the clutch while trying to inch up, it stalls because I'm going to slow. I know I'm burning the clutch doing this, but I don't know how else to inch forward.

Also, when I have to stop from 6th and I don't have time to down shift to each of the lower gears, in that case, would I just put the car in neutral and coast to a stop or should I brake until I feel the car about to shake and then clutch in?

[sato]

Not sure what you mean by inching forward, but if it's rolling out, you'll just have to feel for it. If you say you are burning the clutch, then try easing off it, applying more gas as you let out. Again, feel for it and remember, the clutch is meant to slip a little.

On the stopping scenario. IMO, there should be no need to drop any lower than 2nd if not slowing down to a complete stop (especially if you don't want to grind into first). However, don't keep it in gear so low speed until it shakes... think you will be damaging the engine that way (accelerated wear and tear).

Sent from my C6906 using Tapatalk

[calidus]

Originally Posted by sato

However, don't keep it in gear so low speed until it shakes... think you will be damaging the engine that way (accelerated wear and tear).

You only do this once, because it is fun mix of "oh crap my car is going to explode" and "I am going get t-boned in this intersection".

[Manic]

Originally Posted by kalamitykode

The problem is that even if I shift at 8-10mph it still feels like it takes ages to get into 2nd. And there's always a jerk, no matter how much I practice. I've tried at different rpm ranges, different speeds, no luck. With my automatic Mazda 3 I was easily able to pull into traffic and go without cutting anyone off.. But in this car I have to make sure I have plenty of time.

While many will disagree with this, I've been doing 70-80% of my starts in 2nd gear. I've tried a couple manuals over the last few months, most of them with 5-spd gearboxes, and my friend's 4-spd beetle, and most of them can go from 1-20 in 1st gear. It makes me think that 1st gear in this car is way too short and 2nd gear could reasonably function as 1st.

While I understand that you need to slip the clutch longer to start in 2nd, I find it's a neglible difference. You're slipping the clutch to get into 1st, and if you want a reasonably smooth shift to 2nd, you're slipping it again.

Unless I'm on an incline of some sort, I just find it easier to accelerate from a complete stop in 2nd. YMMV

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by DriftFreak

When you have to inch forward, I always have to clutch in halfway. If I let out the clutch while trying to inch up, it stalls because I'm going to slow. I know I'm burning the clutch doing this, but I don't know how else to inch forward.

This is fine. I half-clutch mine occasionally to inch forward. It's not good to do that excessively, but as sato said above, the clutch is made to slip some.

What I will often do is lift the clutch pedal to the engagement point very briefly to give me a little push forward, then immediately push the clutch back in (or take the car out of gear) and coast. That way I'm not just sitting there slipping the clutch needlessly.

Originally Posted by DriftFreak

Also, when I have to stop from 6th and I don't have time to down shift to each of the lower gears, in that case, would I just put the car in neutral and coast to a stop or should I brake until I feel the car about to shake and then clutch in?

Two comments come to mind. First, you don't actually have to hit every gear as you shift up and down. You can skip gears, especially the higher ones. I will often skip 5th gear on the way up and 4th or 5th coming down. What you don't want to do is skip directly down to 2nd or 1st and over-rev the engine, but there's no need to hit every gear on the way down if you're already going slower than is right for the next gear down.

Second, you don't have to engine brake all the way to a stop. I usually coast at the end. I prefer to be in gear as long as possible, because a RWD sports car behaves more predictably when it's in gear, and because I want to have power available instantly if I need it. But you don't have to keep the car in gear until you're lugging the engine. If you're going that slow, slip out of gear and coast.

Originally Posted by Manic

While many will disagree with this, I've been doing 70-80% of my starts in 2nd gear.

I don't disagree with this. Personally I'm more comfortable starting from 1st, but this car is more than capable of starting from 2nd on flat ground without excessively slipping the clutch or lugging the engine.

[SirBrass]

I'll often skip 3-5 or 3-6 if I'm accelerating up to cruise. If I'm doing a pull for power, though, I shift through each gear's powerband up to near redline to get the max out of each gear and not shift too low.

I'll often from a stop go 1-2-3-5-6, or 1-2-5-6, or 1-3-5-6. or 1-3-4 or 1-3-5 (if surface streets). Downshifting, it varies a LOT depending on traffic ahead. My goal there is to downshift without having to use the brakes at all unless necessary. This helps save on gas.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I don't disagree with this. Personally I'm more comfortable starting from 1st, but this car is more than capable of starting from 2nd on flat ground without excessively slipping the clutch or lugging the engine.

That's good to hear. I'll still use 1st when inching along in heavy traffic, but for the most part, if it's at a traffic light or stop sign, I just roll in 2nd. It helps get me over the whole "I'm not accelerating as fast as those people with automatics" vibe.

[DriftFreak]

Originally Posted by sato

On the stopping scenario. IMO, there should be no need to drop any lower than 2nd if not slowing down to a complete stop (especially if you don't want to grind into first). However, don't keep it in gear so low speed until it shakes... think you will be damaging the engine that way (accelerated wear and tear).

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Two comments come to mind. First, you don't actually have to hit every gear as you shift up and down. You can skip gears, especially the higher ones. I will often skip 5th gear on the way up and 4th or 5th coming down. What you don't want to do is skip directly down to 2nd or 1st and over-rev the engine, but there's no need to hit every gear on the way down if you're already going slower than is right for the next gear down.

Second, you don't have to engine brake all the way to a stop. I usually coast at the end. I prefer to be in gear as long as possible, because a RWD sports car behaves more predictably when it's in gear, and because I want to have power available instantly if I need it. But you don't have to keep the car in gear until you're lugging the engine. If you're going that slow, slip out of gear and coast.

Is it possible to do a combination of braking and downshifting at the same time? So keeping you foot pushed on the brake pedal while at the same time clutch in and out to downshift and possibly rev match using the side of your right foot.

[Manic]

Originally Posted by DriftFreak

Is it possible to do a combination of braking and downshifting at the same time? So keeping you foot pushed on the brake pedal while at the same time clutch in and out to downshift and possibly rev match using the side of your right foot.

Yes actually, it's call heel-and-toe shifting. Useful technique in motorsports and pretty useful for everyday driving as well.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcxHi6FlGLo"]How to Heel and toe, rev match, and double clutch - YouTube[/ame]

[DriftFreak]

Originally Posted by Manic

Yes actually, it's call heel-and-toe shifting. Useful technique in motorsports and pretty useful for everyday driving as well.

I hear a lot of ppl say that on the streets no one really uses heel toe and it is really more for racing. So braking and downshifting at the same time is uncommon for a lot of people?