Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB - Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

- BRZ First-Gen (2012+) — General Topics (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)

- - Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1 (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56113)

Lets learn to drive manual! Save my clutch Season 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirBrass (Post 1728568)

Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.

BE SMOOTH!

I noticed that there are a few of us learning/relearning to drive manual, I was hoping we could share some advice and ask for help in this thread. The amount of information online is overwhelming for beginners with "advanced" topics ranging from heel and toe, double clutching, and rev matching. I would like to focus on the basics of driving the car safely and with minimal wear and tear.

I found this video how a clutch works to be pretty helpful for trying to understand what is actually happening when you press the clutch.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BaECAbapRg"]How Clutches Work - YouTube[/ame]

These two introductory videos on driving manual that I thought were also pretty good.

[ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhRwgRN3f1A]Edmunds -How to drive stick[/ame]

Useful Threads

Rev Matching

I was hoping the more experienced members could help put together a list of bad habits, that we should avoid.

Bad Habits to Avoid:

Riding the clutch- Putting enough pressure on the clutch pedal to partially engage the friction plate on the clutch, therefore he clutchplate will not grip the flywheel properly and will partially slip.
Resting your hand on the shifter
If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into?
Using the clutch to hold a car at an incline for long periods of time.
When you're shifting don't grip the gearstick like you're going to rip it off
Coasting in neutral while in traffic (illegal in some places)

Questions:

What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed? Put the car in neutral, while waiting a light
If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning? Shifting while turning is fine
So don't bother down shifting when coming to a complete stop? Downshifting before coming to a complete stop is unnessary
Should I be rev matching when downshifting? Yes, it is a good habit to get into

Definitions:

Riding the clutch - Putting enough pressure on the clutch pedal to partially engage the friction plate on the clutch, therefore he clutchplate will not grip the flywheel properly and will partially slip
Engagement Point - The point where the engine starts to grip the clutch plate and the transmission starts to turn.
Rev Matching - adjusting your RMPs before downshifting
Heel Toe - some fancy shit that I don't want to get into in a basic thread

Exercises:

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirBrass (Post 1494768)

Here's a trick to NOT stalling from a start.

When your mind says "go!", don't automatically start clutching out. Instead, gas in. Get it up to about 2.5-3k and slowly (SLOWLY) let out the clutch. When you start to feel the clutch grab, reapply throttle gently while letting the clutch all the way out.

Do this in an empty parking lot. it'll get you acclimated to what it feels like in the clutch pedal stroke when the clutch begins to grab and is in full grab. It lets you gently accelerate the vehicle from the stop to get it going and get you into the intersection with velocity such that it won't stall when you raise the throttle to shift.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic (Post 1471295)

When you first start the car (if it's a complete cold start) it will idle around 1.5k to 2k to get the coolant going. If you wait a little bit, it'll drop down to its normal idle which is as you stated around 750-650. When starting, you don't want to release 100% depressed to 0% depressed. Depending on your clutch engagement point, it's more like 100% depressed to 60% (whenever your clutch starts to engage) and then to 0%. Once the clutch starts to engage, give it maybe 5-10% gas, enough to keep the engine above 1k RPM. Personally, I occasionally go up to 1.5k or 2k when starting from a stop. It'll wear the clutch out as you're putting a little bit more torque on it than if you were to launch at a lower RPM, but it gives you a bit more margin for error.

The real trick is the slight pause at your clutch's friction point. A couple ways you could practice this:
1. Find an empty place to practice. Without using any gas, launch the car into first. This requires you to find the friction point of the clutch, and ride it ever so gently so as to not stall out the engine. If you feel the engine starting to die, depress the clutch fully and start again.

2. Find an empty parking lot. Practice starting and stopping in reverse. Do this properly, you know, looking behind you, with your arm on the passenger seat. Make sure you don't look at your tach. This will give you a feel for your engine RPM and your clutch engagement point without looking. This helped me a lot.

3. Find a slight incline. Do a hill start, first with the parking brake trick (if you haven't learned this yet, you just need to set the parking brake to give yourself time to do a regular launch. You'll need to give it a little bit more gas though. Once you reach your friction point, gradually let down the parking brake and you're off.) Once you're moving, try to stop and hold yourself in the position with just your gas pedal and clutch. I don't recommend doing this a lot, rather this is just for practice. It helps you figure the friction point in a hurry and once you can do hill starts, you can do anything.

:thanks:

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidus (Post 1464719)

What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed?

Leave it in Neutral. Sitting for too long with the clutch depressed will wear out your throwout bearing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidus (Post 1464719)

If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning?

I usually do shift to 2nd while turning

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidus (Post 1464719)

If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into?

4th or back into 5th if you dont need to accelerate agressively.

And one "myth" is that you cannot skip gears going up or down.
That is not true. You may select any gear at any time if you know what you are doing.
It will not hurt anything, but you need to learn proper rev matching techniques or you will prematurely wear out your synchros.

You've covered the bad habits.

The questions are answered as follows:

1. Neutral, foot on the service brake. In the UK you must also set your handbrake or you fail the driving test. This is not done in North America.

2. No, but I find myself doing it all the time. This forbidden technique dates back to days when you could miss a shift. Modern gearboxes are pretty much foolproof.

3. Always select the gear appropriate for the task you anticipate. If you are returning to cruise and the engine will pull fifth then re-select fifth. Coasting is not advised if only because the engine uses no fuel on overrun but does when idling. Coasting in gear is a better idea. I coast up to a stop though precisely for the reason underlying your question: if in neutral you're ready to select the gear you need if the light turns green or traffic starts to move. Coasting in neutral is now officially ok, it was frowned upon when gearboxes were trickier to use. Porsche now includes a freewheel in its PDK automatic, just like the old two stroke SAAB manual gearboxes.

Bad Habits to Avoid:
-Riding the clutch- Putting enough pressure on the clutch pedal to partially engage the friction plate on the clutch, therefore he clutchplate will not grip the flywheel properly and will partially slip. Keep your foot on the dead pedal when you aren't using the clutch. This will prevent this bad habit
-Resting your hand on the shifter? Yep, keep hand off the shifter. It supposedly causes excess stress on the trans. This was more prevalent in older cars with older transmissions, but it has become a habit for me to not do so. Resting your hand on the e-brake feels very natural on this car. You can do that if you wish.
???

Questions:
-What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed?Full stop should always be back to netural.
-If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning? Whatever you are comfortable with. I normally shift mid turn.
-If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into? General rule of thumb is that you should never coast. This is due to the fact that if something out of the ordinary happens, you will not be able to maneuver out of the way due to the fact that you have no power.

Good luck in your learning! :thumbsup:

Quote:

What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed?

You should have it in neutral at a long light. While not a necessity, it extends the life of your clutch. Just make sure to put it in gear before going.
When its a stop sign or a changed light. You should have the clutch pressed & the car in 1st (or 2nd if snow), other foot on the break obviously.
Helpful tip: If you're on an incline you can use the e-break if the idiot behind you is up you're ass.
Eventually you'll get to a point where you know the release point & can quickly catch the car from moving back too much.

Quote:

If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning?

You can, sometimes the 2nd gear locks when you're trying to shift into it. There's a thread about it. Just rev the engine a bit, & shift, then release the clutch, slowly.

Quote:

If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into?

Depends on you're speed. As a beginner, & for daily driving, shift into a gear at low RPMs, so if you're down to 30mph shift into 4th, don't try to rev it up to 3k & shift into 3rd. But there's no reason to coast in neutral unless you're going down a big hill or eventually coming to a halt/hitting traffic.

Coasting tends to be a bad idea, I find myself only doing this when I'm coming to a red light, I might just put in neutral and coast to stop (note if you do this during test you will fail, you have to downshift+rev match to pass).

But if the light turns green and you are coasting, say you are going around 40Km/h you will need to blip/rev match into 4th gear.

If you need to slow down to the traffic in front of you that's still moving, rev match and downshift.

I would also avoid any downshifting to 1st gear, just put it in 1st when taking off from complete stop or <5-7km/h, you'll need to get a feel for this, it might be really weird at first.

These might also help if you're just starting to learn.

Liked this article, a must read if you're just starting to learn.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/how...ion-1466331076

Once we you get the basics down then you need to start practicing on dealing with hills / inclines.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh5BW-XwtM"]How to Drive a Stick Shift: Dealing with Hills - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ0-dGwpPMs"]Tutorial: How to drive a stick uphill on a 2006 Subaru WRX STi - YouTube[/ame]

Basic rev matching.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5TEUv__2m4"]How To Downshift and Rev Match in a Manual Car Driving in a 2011 Subaru WRX - YouTube[/ame]

This one is more advanced. But once you're proficient enough on the over all basics then you can try this.

Heel / Toe lesson: fast forward @ 13:37 on the video

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqYeusE8ksk"]Porsche 911 GT3 with Hurley Haywood - Heel/Toe Shift Lesson - YouTube[/ame]

Ok next question: When should I be coasting in gear(not touching any pedals) vs downshifting + rev matching?

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidus (Post 1464719)

Bad Habits to Avoid:

Riding the clutch- Putting enough pressure on the clutch pedal to partially engage the friction plate on the clutch, therefore he clutchplate will not grip the flywheel properly and will partially slip. I agree with the dead pedal comment above. I've always done that though.
Resting your hand on the shifter? My father rests his hand on my shifter, claims it doesn't do anything since he's had multiple manuals. He's too stubborn to listen though
???

Questions:

What should I be doing while waiting at a traffic light(assume no incline)? Neutral? 1st with the clutch completely pressed? I go in to neutral then shift into first when it's time to go. It's more relaxed that way which is a lame excuse.
If am making a left turn at intersection from a complete stop should I be shifting from 1st into 2nd while turning? For me it depends on the situation. If there's nobody coming, I do the turn in first then shift to second exiting it. If there's a lot of traffic, I shift into second mid turn.
If I come out of 5th gear and I am coasting, then when I am ready to accelerate again, what gear should I put the car into? Depends on the speed. If I'm going say around 30mph-35mph I shift into 4th, 25mph-30mph 3rd gear. Higher than that 4th, you just learn where to shift it.

:thanks:

Now, I learned to drive in this car, so I may be wrong. This is just based on videos and combined with what my father told me.

Edit:

For me, I usually down shift because I anticipate the light changing soon if traffic isn't bad. With the exception of first, I never down shift to that. The only time I ever really put it in neutral and cruise is when I say go into my driveway. It's a habit I'm trying to get out of cruising in neutral. I did it more when I was learning.

I've instructed a couple of people on driving stick and the one common question they ask me is: "How do you know where your stick is (which row of gears)?"

1st/2nd means your stick is to the left
3rd/4th means your stick is in the middle or neutral position
5th/6th (or reverse in all of my previous cars) means your stick is to the right

Usually when I shift from say 2nd to 3rd, I simply push up on the stick to the neutral position and it will automatically slip into the middle row and then I simply push up into the third. Of course, IRL, this is MUCH faster than it sounds but it is something to look for.

I've never had any issues from resting my hand lightly on the shifter. Generally in this car, though, with my shift knob, I just don't rest it on the shifter unless I'm going to be making multiple shifts in a short period of time (maneuvering in traffic or rapidly accelerating). In my STI, it was much more comfortable to rest my hand on the shifter. In the BRZ, it's more comfortable to have it resting on the wheel.

And when you're shifting don't grip the gearstick like you're going to rip it off. That deathgrip on the stick will give you more chance to misshift/grind gears.

It all comes down to practise. You can read countless of books and articles and such but actually driving the car will learn you more.

Another bad habit you should add is using the clutch to hold a car at an incline for long periods of time. Can't tell you how many manual drivers ive seen that rock their cars back and forth on inclines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calidus (Post 1464920)

Ok next question: When should I be coasting in gear(not touching any pedals) vs downshifting + rev matching?

My personal opinion is that rev-matching and heel-toe braking/downshifting should come into the picture after you're totally comfortable with every other aspect of operating a manual transmission, if it comes into the picture at all.

Although a very small percentage of MT drivers use it to smooth shifts and reduce mechanical wear, the main purpose of blipping the throttle during a downshift is to not upset the balance of the vehicle when braking into a high-speed turn, and that's really only critical in a racing situation. I've been driving MT for ~15 years and racing open-wheel cars for 4 years; I rarely blip the throttle on the street, but I do it every lap on the track. It's awkward and unnecessary on the street. In my experience and opinion.

And you're spot on with the bad habits. Hands on the wheel unless you're shifting -- you might need them in a hurry. And use the dead pedal when your left foot isn't working the clutch. (Of course, I'm totally guilty of doing both from time to time.)