From Boxster to FR-S

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by billwot

Hmmm...afraid they missed the mark on both counts!

Have you driven both? And I mean DRIVEN, not a spin around the block or a ride in a buddy/friend/relative's car.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

This topic was about the 2 cars, did you even read the topic???

Yes, and the OP gave a great evaluation without the trolling or obvious embarrassment over buying the cheaper car.

Originally Posted by zdr93523

I've owned Hondas, DSM, RX-7, Supra Turbo, WRX, Benz, BRZ, Porsche, and a couple of sport bikes and a couple of trucks/SUVs. All of which were worked on/built by me. I am a vehicle enthusiast and not a troll.

The bottom line is that I am stating facts, sir. Not saying, "I think it looks kinda like car X" I wasn't attacking either car, I love both of them. That is why I own both of them. You clearly didn't read my entire sig or any of my other posts or even clearly comprehend what I was saying in the post you commented on.

I did read your posts. What I saw is a Porsche owner who is obviously harboring some level of embarrassment over buying and enjoying a cheaper sports car and needed to let us know he can afford a Porsche, but justifying the higher price of that purchase by saying that the GT86 is just a cheap copy of the real thing. And you continue to do so, with statements like this:

Originally Posted by zdr93523

For the record, I bought my BRZ long before the Porsche. It is absolute flattery for the 86 to have so successfully and inexpensively mimicked the greatest handling car on the planet at any price.

I'm so glad you condescend to slum with us mere peons who don't have Porsches.

Originally Posted by zdr93523

You should take a look at this:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ayman-s-page-3

And this (Go straight to #9):
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...dont-know.html

The second link says that Tada used the Porsche as a benchmark for performance. "Benchmark" does not mean "copy." It means setting a certain standard to meet.

And it says absolutely nothing about copying the interior or windows. On the contrary, Toyota has made a big deal about using the 2000GT as a design inspiration. If anybody is copying the windows, it would have to be Porsche, since the 2000GT predated the Cayman by 38 years.

The first link doesn't say anything at all about benchmarking. It just compares the two cars. And it does a bad job at it, as those interiors do not really look that much alike, except that they both have steering wheels, gauges, vents, glove boxes, stereos and gear shifts.



The lines of the GT86 dash are actually modeled on the 2000GT, even if the materials are more modern.



If the GT86 is a "copy" of the Porsche, then it looks like most sports cars are copies of each other, since any similarities between the GT86 and the Porsche can also be found in pretty much any sports car.


OMG! They copied the TR6!


OMG! They copied the MGB!





I'm sorry you are so embarrassed by your car. It's a shame really, when the rest of us are able to have so much fun in it without having to make excuses for it.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

It's a budget supercar. The people who think there is something wrong with it are f-ed in the head.

Supercar? Not quite.. Great little sports car for sure.. Supercar is a class reserved for those purpose built machines that can achieve breakneck speeds and handling without compromise..

[pascalbrax]

Lots of famous people died in a Porsche.

They're fast and good looking (sometimes) cars that give you a false sense of security and control.

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Yes, and the OP gave a great evaluation without the trolling or obvious embarrassment over buying the cheaper car.



I did read your posts. What I saw is a Porsche owner who is obviously harboring some level of embarrassment over buying and enjoying a cheaper sports car and needed to let us know he can afford a Porsche, but justifying the higher price of that purchase by saying that the GT86 is just a cheap copy of the real thing. And you continue to do so, with statements like this:



I'm so glad you condescend to slum with us mere peons who don't have Porsches.



The second link says that Tada used the Porsche as a benchmark for performance. "Benchmark" does not mean "copy." It means setting a certain standard to meet.

And it says absolutely nothing about copying the interior or windows. On the contrary, Toyota has made a big deal about using the 2000GT as a design inspiration. If anybody is copying the windows, it would have to be Porsche, since the 2000GT predated the Cayman by 38 years.

The first link doesn't say anything at all about benchmarking. It just compares the two cars. And it does a bad job at it, as those interiors do not really look that much alike, except that they both have steering wheels, gauges, vents, glove boxes, stereos and gear shifts.



The lines of the GT86 dash are actually modeled on the 2000GT, even if the materials are more modern.



If the GT86 is a "copy" of the Porsche, then it looks like most sports cars are copies of each other, since any similarities between the GT86 and the Porsche can also be found in pretty much any sports car.


OMG! They copied the TR6!


OMG! They copied the MGB!





I'm sorry you are so embarrassed by your car. It's a shame really, when the rest of us are able to have so much fun in it without having to make excuses for it.

Again, you missed the entire point of my post. I am in no way shape or form embarrassed about the 86. I love that car. If you look again at all of those pics you posted, the only two center stack/knee pads that are IDENTICAL are the Cayman and the 86. And I know Toyota used the 2000GT for inspiration, it is an awesome car too. I'm really not sure what your problem is. I never said it was a "mere" copy. But they certainly copied that center stack/knee pad area and the shape of the steering wheel center section/spokes. This is not bashing, just a fact! They also have the same windshield rake, same roof line, same window line, are the same size overall, etc... need I go on? Do you want pics?

My comparison of the similarities was for the purpose of explaining how high Toyota/Subaru were shooting when they chose a car as a benchmark. It is absolutely incredible that they were able to acheive something so close to a $75K car for only $30K.

It is funny that you think I hate my BRZ, because I'm going to a PCA HPDE event next month and which car am I taking??? I'm driving the BRZ at a Porsche event. If I was sooooo embarrassed, do you think I would do that? No. The insinuation that I am ebarrassed of the BRZ is absurd. And if I'm so high and mighty because I own a Porsche (which I'm not), why would I even own a car that I am embarrassed of? That is ridiculous. Listen to yourself.

The topic started out comparing the two cars and I contributed since I own both. The two cars are EXTREMELY similar in MANY ways, including design and performance. Frankly, if you do not or have not owned both, you're the one trolling this thread.

There was zero negativity in my posts but you sure injected a lot of negative tone into my posts when you read them. Maybe you should look at things more objectively in the future. Why are you so defensive when no attack is being made?

[MokSpeed]

[FRiSson]

It's a lot easier to build a fantastic sports car with a budget of over 100K than it is to build an excellent one for 25K. Toyota deserves enormous thanks.

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by FRiSson

It's a lot easier to build a fantastic sports car with a budget of over 100K than it is to build an excellent one for 25K. Toyota deserves enormous thanks.

Absolutely agree!

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by zdr93523

If you look again at all of those pics you posted, the only two center stack/knee pads that are IDENTICAL are the Cayman and the 86.

Except that they're not. They're not the same shape, they're not the same height and they're not laid out the same way. I can't see how anybody can look at those two center consoles and say that Toyota "copied" Porsche.

Originally Posted by zdr93523

But they certainly copied that center stack/knee pad area and the shape of the steering wheel center section/spokes.

Except that the shape of the steering spokes is not unique to either car. The bottom split spoke is right out of the Triumph I posted, and the shape of the distribution of the spokes is the same as the MGB. The MR2 also had that same shape.

Originally Posted by zdr93523

They also have the same windshield rake, same roof line, same window line, are the same size overall, etc...

Except that the roof is flatter because of the roof ridges (thank the gods), which were taken directly from the 2000GT, and the windshield rake hasn't been unique since the 60s. If you look at the profile view of this car, it's closer to a 350Z than to a Cayman (which, by the way, also predates the Cayman, so if similarity=copying, Porsche seems to be copying anybody that comes along). I always thought this car looked like Toyota took a 350Z and removed all the ugly.

These are all details where form follows function. You're going to end up with a similar profile for a lot of sports cars because of wind tunnels. The steering wheel has the downward swept spokes specifically to facilitate shuffle steering (as opposed to hand-over-hand), which is why the MGB was laid out that way. They're going to have center consoles because that's just convenient. There's just no evidence here that Toyota "copied" Porsche, when the details you pointed out are not really unique to either car.

Originally Posted by zdr93523

It is funny that you think I hate my BRZ, because I'm going to a PCA HPDE event next month and which car am I taking??? I'm driving the BRZ at a Porsche event.

I commend you on your willingness to challenge your biases. If Donald Sterling can say he's not racist because he was trying to date a half-black girl, you can certainly say that you're not Porschist since you're driving a BRZ to a Porsche event.

[billwot]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I always thought this car looked like Toyota took a 350Z and removed all the ugly.

The first time a saw an FR-S in front of a dealership, I thought it was a new Nissan Z (and I was driving a 350 Z at the time).

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by billwot

The first time a saw an FR-S in front of a dealership, I thought it was a new Nissan Z (and I was driving a 350 Z at the time).

The guy repairing my windshield said he thought my car was a 370z when he first saw it.

[MokSpeed]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Except that they're not. They're not the same shape, they're not the same height and they're not laid out the same way. I can't see how anybody can look at those two center consoles and say that Toyota "copied" Porsche.



Except that the shape of the steering spokes is not unique to either car. The bottom split spoke is right out of the Triumph I posted, and the shape of the distribution of the spokes is the same as the MGB. The MR2 also had that same shape.



Except that the roof is flatter because of the roof ridges (thank the gods), which were taken directly from the 2000GT, and the windshield rake hasn't been unique since the 60s. If you look at the profile view of this car, it's closer to a 350Z than to a Cayman (which, by the way, also predates the Cayman, so if similarity=copying, Porsche seems to be copying anybody that comes along). I always thought this car looked like Toyota took a 350Z and removed all the ugly.

These are all details where form follows function. You're going to end up with a similar profile for a lot of sports cars because of wind tunnels. The steering wheel has the downward swept spokes specifically to facilitate shuffle steering (as opposed to hand-over-hand), which is why the MGB was laid out that way. They're going to have center consoles because that's just convenient. There's just no evidence here that Toyota "copied" Porsche, when the details you pointed out are not really unique to either car.



I commend you on your willingness to challenge your biases. If Donald Sterling can say he's not racist because he was trying to date a half-black girl, you can certainly say that you're not Porschist since you're driving a BRZ to a Porsche event.

For somebody defending Toyota so much, it's weird that you bought the Subaru version. I'm just saying....

[zdr93523]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Except that they're not. They're not the same shape, they're not the same height and they're not laid out the same way. I can't see how anybody can look at those two center consoles and say that Toyota "copied" Porsche.



Except that the shape of the steering spokes is not unique to either car. The bottom split spoke is right out of the Triumph I posted, and the shape of the distribution of the spokes is the same as the MGB. The MR2 also had that same shape.



Except that the roof is flatter because of the roof ridges (thank the gods), which were taken directly from the 2000GT, and the windshield rake hasn't been unique since the 60s. If you look at the profile view of this car, it's closer to a 350Z than to a Cayman (which, by the way, also predates the Cayman, so if similarity=copying, Porsche seems to be copying anybody that comes along). I always thought this car looked like Toyota took a 350Z and removed all the ugly.

These are all details where form follows function. You're going to end up with a similar profile for a lot of sports cars because of wind tunnels. The steering wheel has the downward swept spokes specifically to facilitate shuffle steering (as opposed to hand-over-hand), which is why the MGB was laid out that way. They're going to have center consoles because that's just convenient. There's just no evidence here that Toyota "copied" Porsche, when the details you pointed out are not really unique to either car.



I commend you on your willingness to challenge your biases. If Donald Sterling can say he's not racist because he was trying to date a half-black girl, you can certainly say that you're not Porschist since you're driving a BRZ to a Porsche event.

Except Toyota is the one who claimed that they used the Cayman for 86 development... Not me. That is the difference. I'm stating facts so quit bashing me. Maybe you're just a little jealous? Angry about something? Need some counseling? In none of my posts have I ever said anything negative about the 86. What is your deal?

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[DeeezNuuuts83]

But you're taking it out of context. They used it during development as a benchmark, as far as driving experience/involvement. You've been insinuating that Toyota was pretty much trying to copy it, inside and out.