Fbm or Avo

[Darryljr11]

The Ptuning kit is a great option. The main negative about the kit is the entry price. The intercooler piping does not negatively effect transient response when compared to another kit running a GT30 (a FBM kit which I have had the privilege to ride in). Many people in my area have the PTuning kit and I am getting mine put on this week and the only issues anyone seems to have is vacuum hoses popping off which is an easy fix and something anyone who has gone FI may have.

[OjiGeorge]

In my opinion the FBM kit is a top quality kit at an excellent price. Since having the kit installed my car has been driven hard and autox'd with no over heating issues to speak of. In addition to the base kit I'm running the FBM rad, have a turbo blanket, and hot parts wrapped. That said, I believe this forum disproportionately exaggerates the heating issues of top-mount kits vs other. I'll have a chance to track the car in a few weeks so will report back the oil temps I'm logging then.

[Sportsguy83]

To answer OP's opinion, I recommend FBM kit. High quality, awesome customer service, that stage 1 base kit is going for a great price!

On other notes:

Originally Posted by DesertFrs

From my understanding this kit is not in it's efficient rate until you hit mid 16-17 for optimal power and is rated past that. (Done Research)

The AVO TD05-18G "Taiwanese made" turbo is maxed out at around 17-18 psi, it is not in its efficiency range at 16-17 psi. Also, anything past 12 psi will not hold boost. Boost to 16 psi and see it taper down to 11 by redline. The AVO turbo is most efficient between 7-11 psi.

And that is fine, there are different turbo configurations to be had, and AVO chose an OEM+ type, which is similar to what we see from STI's. AVO turbo functions well for its intended design; boost to 10-11 psi, car feels good, OEM+, kit looks again OEM+, (except for when the exhaust manifold leaks). Quick spool, good throttle response, instant rush of torque hit as it spools up quickly. Anyone who would like to upgrade later to more power will have to fork a good chunk of cash to go to the next level. Stage 1 goes for $4500, Stage 3 with billet wheel compressor goes for $9000 (that includes stage 1 + full exhaust + fuel upgrades and a few other things). That stage 3 will be interesting to see.

All of that is fine until you drive a car with a turbo with up to date technology, e. g. GTX28, GTX30, GTX35. Cooler charge temps, incredible response, full boost 100 rpms (if that) than avo's stage 1 turbo, making more power per psi, headroom to play later on, and all for a similar price....

Then you scratch your head thinking, why settle?

Stage 3 comparison gets very overpriced IMHO. For my current configuration I have an $1800 turbo (GTX30 with dual V band exhaust housing), full V-band exhaust (not cheap either) everything fully SS, everything a one off (not mass produced), ID injectors and Walbro 485 pump, D3PE Catch Can, Tial BOV and WG. I payed less than $7500K for it all being conservative because I think it was actually less than 7K.....

Originally Posted by D K

1000 is too small for 450w and corn

1000cc ports + OEM DI's are plenty enough for 450whp.

Originally Posted by deucethemoose

Odd that AVO has no problem with heat when beating the piss out of their racecar at Tsukuba.

I find it odd enough that I trust more third party testers than vendor testing.




The above is my worthless OPINION. Sorry if feelings hurt...

[steveoexige]

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Bigmaxy

I would think that any car that is going to see sustained track time will need cooling upgrades regardless of AVO or FBM.

As an aside I seem to recall an issue with the cooling fans on some of the FBM kits melting also.

I believe that was a limited batch of downpipes that were too close to the cooling fans. I had plenty of clearance between my downpipe/fans and they never melted or failed in 15,000 miles. I believe LJ @ Full Blown replaced fans and offered new downpipes.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by mrharry

Hey guys
At the moment I'm looking into getting turbo soon for my 86.
I'm thinking fbm base kit with gtx30 and 1000cc injectors but that will cost me a arm to bring into Australia.
Where as the avo would be the cheaper option but I'm not sure if it would give me the power I'm after which is about 300hp on 98ron(93oct).

Any suggestion?

I just can't believe with all the options that those are the two you are trying to decide between because they are about as different as you can get. A GTX30 is a monumentally better and bigger turbo than what comes in the AVO kit. Honestly, the cheaper base kit GT2871R turbo in the FBM kit will more than reach your goal on 300 whp on 93 octane and keep the price down a little bit. Why are you wanting 1000cc injectors when you only plan on running 300whp and 93 octane? It sounds to me like you really think you might want big power on a big turbo like the GTX30 and E85, but you are thinking about settling for a cheaper small turbo AVO kit and might be content with 300 whp on 93 octane. As others have found out, the desire to upgrade and run more boost and make more power often follows a successfull turbo kit install. Don't end up with not enough turbo and have to spend more money to correct the initial decision.

[SkAsphalt]

It is true... I wouldn't mind more power

[mike the snake]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I believe that was a limited batch of downpipes that were too close to the cooling fans. I had plenty of clearance between my downpipe/fans and they never melted or failed in 15,000 miles. I believe LJ @ Full Blown replaced fans and offered new downpipes.

My downpipe was too close and killed the fans, but LJ replaced the fans and sent a new downpipe immediately. Best customer service I've experienced.

It's still close, but that is the nature of the front mounted turbo on this car.

I set my fans to turn on at a low temp and stay on, which, along with the FB radiator, fans, and shroud, has my temps rock solid under any load.

Even after running hard, and then stopping in traffic, my temps do not move 1 degree.

[AllDayJonRay]

For those debating cooling as an issue with the AVO kit, why? The OP said nothing of cooling concerns, nor is cooling during track abuse an issue that can be attributed to one kit and not the other.

Originally Posted by Bigmaxy

I would think that any car that is going to see sustained track time will need cooling upgrades regardless of AVO or FBM.

This says it all. Cooling under these circumstances is an issue regardless of what kit you buy. Pointing to examples of AVO cars being tracked and overheated is an unfair means at an attempt to discredit AVO's turbo kit, as neither of these kits address cooling concerns. Both leave this to the consumer to sort out.

I don't understand why people feel the need to slight credible kits at every opportunity, but its really not useful to the community to interject unrelated and unproductive statements into every 'which kit' thread. Maybe its best to keep the statements of bias to ourselves and try harder to simply answer questions asked to help improve community knowledgeability.

If either design should raise concern regarding heat, its the front mount design, which adds a significant source of heat to the front of the engine compartment. But again, this isn't a concern the OP came to the community asking about. He came to the community to ask about power output, and instead he's getting a thread full of bickering.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by AllDayJonRay

If either design should raise concern regarding heat, its the front mount design, which adds a significant source of heat to the front of the engine compartment. But again, this isn't a concern the OP came to the community asking about. He came to the community to ask about power output, and instead he's getting a thread full of bickering.

If OP is asking for advice, he should be given the full story on both kits shouldn't he? So that means the whole nine yards. How it makes power, what are the limits, can it grow later on, how bad is cooling needed, what parts can fail, has anyone had issues with either kit....

So, what again is wrong with bringing up the times when FBM kit has overheated and times when AVO kit has overheated? BOTH kits require cooling upgrades if anyone is really wanting to track the car with them. It's not only "top mounted kits".

Or for example, what is wrong of bringing up quality concerns about both kits? We are looking to give OP the real story, not the sugar coated, fairy-tailed one.

The truth might hurt, but it is the truth nonetheless.

[D K]

I can handle the truth

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by D K

I can handle the truth

[AllDayJonRay]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

If OP is asking for advice, he should be given the full story on both kits shouldn't he? So that means the whole nine yards. How it makes power, what are the limits, can it grow later on, how bad is cooling needed, what parts can fail, has anyone had issues with either kit....

So, what again is wrong with bringing up the times when FBM kit has overheated and times when AVO kit has overheated? BOTH kits require cooling upgrades if anyone is really wanting to track the car with them. It's not only "top mounted kits".

Or for example, what is wrong of bringing up quality concerns about both kits? We are looking to give OP the real story, not the sugar coated, fairy-tailed one.

The truth might hurt, but it is the truth nonetheless.

I'm all for giving the full story. Comments I was referring to didn't provide the full story, but were meant to slight one of the kits as inferior to the other due to having cooling issues, as if the kit design is to blame for the problem. Comments were made with the intention of shining a light on one of the kits as inferior to the other, and circumstances provided as support for the concern that are not exclusive to the kit (overheating during track abuse), or inherent of the kit's particular design.

I've seen two avo turbo kitted 86s overheating at the track. Both running 7psi. Both had oil coolers. One also had a thicker radiator...

It wasn't an example of providing the full story. Cooling concerns were brought into this thread as a means to slight one of the kits, not as a suggested concern of both/any kit(s), which is the only reason cooling concerns should have been included here.

You are correct, BOTH kits should have cooling addressed, but this isn't what was being advised, which is why I made a statement. It's wasn't helpful advise/input.

The OP asked a question about his power goals in respect to two different kits. He was getting input on this, but someone felt it necessary to share anecdotal evidence of one kit's inferiority. It was bias against one of the kits, with no legitimate evidence that the kit was to blame for any type of failure, and did not immediately relate to the OP's request, or ensuing discussion on power output. Answering the OP's questions without all the bias white-noise isn't sugar coating or telling fairy-tales.

[AVOturboworld]

Originally Posted by mrharry

Hey guys
At the moment I'm looking into getting turbo soon for my 86.
I'm thinking fbm base kit with gtx30 and 1000cc injectors but that will cost me a arm to bring into Australia.
Where as the avo would be the cheaper option but I'm not sure if it would give me the power I'm after which is about 300hp on 98ron(93oct).

Any suggestion?

Hi,

If you have any specific questions towards the AVO kit, I'd be more than happy to answer you via pm or email. As you are in Australia, you could also give Lee a call at our office in Melbourne.

300whp at 10~12psi is reachable on 93 octane, and has been reached here on 92 octane (10% ethanol blend). A pure 93 octane would make it even easier. Octane is the real limiter on power, the turbocharger itself isn't really even being worked that hard at those boost levels.

I'm not sure why cooling at the track was brought up, but given the extensive links and videos to cars in the UK, Japan, Taiwan, and America of AVO kitted cars being tracked successfully, I'd say that it's an obvious non-issue. We have over 14 owners in our Washington state area with AVO turbo kits, from pure daily drivers to owners that occasionally see the track, and no-one has had issues with them.

Do keep in mind that a realistic 300whp build will need a clutch due to the torque at that level of power, and a full exhaust upgrade should really be considered a minimum as well.