This car is nuts!!! 200 hp?!? No way.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

To be fair we're all on the same page that crickets and DI noise are the last thing to worry about on this car.

DI seals, axles breaking with modified suspension, oil starved motors and the cam sensor seems to still pop up every once and awhile.

Good thing they didn't turn on the A/C during the test drive, the idle hunting would have been a huge turnoff as well.

Helping is subjective, agreed that regal is probably the foremost chicken little but if an internet post turns you off a car that in the grand scheme of things has been pretty reliable it's probably a good thing. I know I wouldn't be happy with a car I worried about everytime I drove it regardless of reality.

The irony is that the OP then selects a car which has a track record of dangerous unreliability (well, unreliable if you discount rarity of instances). The rare unreliable cases of Cameros have had far worse consequences than any accidental lemons on our cars.

And no I wouldn't call it a good thing, actually. It's not good to be that easily scared off from a car that (from driving it) you know you love.

I wasn't scared off from the WRX/STI because of the ringland issue (which was a real issue and an actual reliability issue), b/c the issue was actually rare and more prone to crop up in folks who went and upped the boost way up without building the block first (though it cropped up a few times in stock motors). Why? The issue was a rare issue and a non-starter for the majority of us who didn't want to go very far beyond stage 2 (tbe and tune) as far as power mods. I didn't let forum alarmists scare me away from the car I had bought and had thought was my dream car (turned out it wasn't, but it took me a bit to figure that out).

Just like how the transmission "clunk" you sometimes get when going from neutral to first while stopped before letting out the clutch and applying gas is a non-issue and actually a good healthy "the output shaft disengaged properly" sound, so here. This is just what a hpfp sounds like. The issue is when it gets LOUD for some reason. It's not getting ready to fail, it just is what it is. The solution there is a better hpfp design overall, I think. But you'll still get crickets, just not at the volumes that are sometimes encountered which can be heard in the cabin with the radio on and the hood closed.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

DI seals, axles breaking with modified suspension, oil starved motors and the cam sensor seems to still pop up every once and awhile.

Good thing they didn't turn on the A/C during the test drive, the idle hunting would have been a huge turnoff as well.

The first is mostly on heavily tracked cars.

The second I have no idea about as my car is newer I suppose. No AC issues and no idle hunting.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by regal

The interview with the Avo engineer is a bit scary, he tells us this is Subaru's 3rd attempt at VVT and there are situations where the VVT can starve the shortblock. That's what this forum needs to be concerned with, not crickets. Avo probably knows more about the FA20 than about anyone outside of Subaru. JMHO.

Subaru has been running variable timing and variable lift for quite a while now, with relatively few issues. Hell, my 2007 Outback's 2.5L SOHC engine has variable intake lift.

[regal]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

DI seals were not a problem, the transient knock was the issue & that's been fixed.

You're raving about nothing (again).

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

I just mentions concerns and if you actually read my post I said most probably attributed to aggressive tuning shop tuning.)




The DI seal issue isn't fixed, if you own a 2012 vehicle, the dealer will still refuses to flash the latest B01C unless you demonstrate an idle issue and charge you $40 for their time without flashing.


So you have to learn Tatrix and ECUflash to fix it if you live hours from the nearest dealer. Not a big deal for me but most used car buyers should avoid 2012 builds IMHO.


I admit a few chicken little posts a couple years ago when we waiting over a year for a new factory flash but I was fustrated. But I was also the first to post not to panic With the CEL debacle. I knew it would be fixed with a flash. The fact that the DI (TIR table unfinished) was never acknowledged by corp was inexcusable and justifiable cause for frustration.


I highly recommend you watch the interview with the AVO engineer. Its not a bed of roses for this engine, its not a tough SR20DET, its not as advanced as or powerful as the new GM Ecotec Gen III.


The FA20 a one-off not to be used in any other car and we as a community need to learn how to help it. Even the latest @mad_sb's posts are showing fustration.


No car is perfect and denying those facts because you're going to trade it in for the next popular thing in a year or so isn't helpful for those of us like me who love the car and plan on keeping it on the road at least a quarter million miles.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

And no I wouldn't call it a good thing, actually. It's not good to be that easily scared off from a car that (from driving it) you know you love.

I didn't let forum alarmists scare me away from the car I had bought and had thought was my dream car (turned out it wasn't, but it took me a bit to figure that out).

How can you love something that you're unsure of? Do I have to link to the posts of people getting this car lemon lawed based on fogged up taillights or idle hunting or crickets?

This car isn't for everybody and if a potential owner doesn't want to deal with potential issues then that's totally ok, even if for most people they are non-issues. A buyer that gets immediately turned off by the chirping is going to get turned off by rattles, road noise, fogged up tailights, trim pieces wearing out quickly, stiff second gear, popping rear package shelf, rattling clutch/flywheel and on and on, odds are the average owner will experience at least one of these issues and complain.

There are different breeds of enthusiasts with different wants, if the Camaro offers peace of mind at the sacrifice of some enjoyment then so be it. Not everybody takes the compromises of the Toyobaru in stride like you or I, just look at the 100 page "what do you hate about your car" thread.

[tahdizzle]

Why is this thread still going? She bought a camaro.

/thread

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by tahdizzle

Why is this thread still going? She bought a camaro.

/thread

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

if the Camaro offers peace of mind

That's just it, how can a car with 10 pages worth of TSBs (many of which are engine and transmission related) do that compared to an 86?

Not liking a potential noise is one thing, claiming peace of mind from a GM product is a whole other level of hilarity.

I guess anything is an upgrade from a Dodge...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

That's just it, how can a car with 10 pages worth of TSBs (many of which are engine and transmission related) do that compared to an 86?

Because the idea we're arguing about is subjective.

I know diehard Chevy fans, I know diehard Ford fans, look around this forum and you'll see diehard Subaru and Toyota fans at each others throat. ("Toyota ruined this engine with their stupid injection system." "Subaru hasn't made a decent engine in 20 years, boxers are pointless.")

Bottom line is the OP felt more comfortable with a car they were more familiar with.

[Boxer486]

Well, I never thought of inferior mechanical reliability offering more peace of mind over some random noises that may or may not appear being subjective before. Learn something new all the time I guess.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

That's just it, how can a car with 10 pages worth of TSBs (many of which are engine and transmission related) do that compared to an 86?

Not liking a potential noise is one thing, claiming peace of mind from a GM product is a whole other level of hilarity.

I guess anything is an upgrade from a Dodge...

Well I hate to say this but TSB are good. They bring the problem out in the open. One could say some of the important info we get from Toyobaru is leaked internal documents, they seem to tend to be afraid of issuing TSB for our cars.


Then again they may be slow because they typically drill down to the true problem. Time will tell.




As far as the OP if she bought a Camaro she never considered the twins seriously they couldn't be more opposite. Only explanation would be she was looking for the famous Japanese quality/reliability/never leave you stranded. I have to admit my FRS stranded me one, A tree fell during a wind storm and a branch knocked off the power window which drained the batter. Could have been much worse, literally inches between a $300 power mirror and a new car. Luck was on my side.

[Braces]

[QUOTE=regal;1676603]

Its ashame this engine when revved doesn't give a confidence inspiring feeling like the 2zz or F20c. Yes I know that's totally subjective, but there is a 2-stroke chain saw feeling to it over 5-6k rpm.


That' funny. That's exactly how I feel. The engine sounds like it wants to blow up past 5-6K. Weird sensation. 20,000 miles on mine with routine visits to the redline and the car is perfect. Not a single issue (hopefully I didn't just jinx myself).

[regal]

[quote=Braces;1677510]

Originally Posted by regal

Its ashame this engine when revved doesn't give a confidence inspiring feeling like the 2zz or F20c. Yes I know that's totally subjective, but there is a 2-stroke chain saw feeling to it over 5-6k rpm.


That' funny. That's exactly how I feel. The engine sounds like it wants to blow up past 5-6K. Weird sensation. 20,000 miles on mine with routine visits to the redline and the car is perfect. Not a single issue (hopefully I didn't just jinx myself).

Maybe we just aren't used to boxers (this is my first), at least nobody can say it sounds like a sewing machine

[Jen]

Okay. I officially have a Camaro. White, manual, orange racing stripes.


Issue #1= finding first gear, no problem, second gear, no problem, where the fck is third, fourth, fifth, sixth....


I love your car. I really do. I'll get one in a few years if they can get rid of "chirping." I'm not okay with it, you guys are, fine. If it was there on all cars at all times, fine, but the fact that the cars get it at different mileages, it comes, it goes, that's my problem with it.

I don't know where you were finding pages of problems with the new Camaro. I research everything that I buy. I was hoping to get the Toyota reliability that goes along with Japanese cars. That's why I was so excited that they had another sports car. My Prius has been the most reliable thing I have owned. I have 36k warranty on the Camaro. If stuff starts going wrong like crazy or if the car if off, I will get rid of it. It is a base car, I got a good price on it, so nothing huge invested.


For those of you looking for an FRS/BRZ:
(1) New Holland Toyota, in New Holland, PA- 2013 FRS, silver, with the wing, 22k
(2) Westchester Toyota, in Yonkers, NY-2013 FRS, black, 22k
Both of those cars have the 1k rebate, so really 21k at 1.9%
(3) In CT, there is a BRZ for 23k, silver. Trumbell, CT.


Those were the cars I found. I was going to buy the one in CT, they said that it sold, it really is still there. I would have had that car right now. The FRS in PA and the one in NY have the "sounds" that I can't go along with. The sounds are like the ones in the videos I posted before. I can't deal with those noises, if you are okay with them and are looking for one, those are some good deals on the cars. If you go to Westchester Toyota, only deal with David Lee, awesome guy.