This car is nuts!!! 200 hp?!? No way.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

Lol, reminds me of a friend of mine that used to work for Lexus. He'd get some people coming in that 'thought' they might have heard something or aren't happy because their car or SUV doesn't sound like a complete vacuum in space.

First world problems.

Yep, those kind of folks need an all electric car ....



humfrz

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Jen

Don't like miatas at all. Thanks though

Thanks everyone for all of your advice!! Especially Porsche

I wish this thing didn't have so many issues.

We've told you, it doesn't have issues, just some sounds.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I was thinking that I was the only one that just "heard" a normal, 4 cylinder engine, with a solid cam set up, running .....

Of course, my old ears don't hear some sounds ...... that mrs humfrz points out .....


humfrz

I'm not old (less than half your age) & I don't hear anything other than normal noise. The only actual cricket issues I've heard about have been chirps so loud than at idle, passers by were looking at the affected car & wondering what was wrong with it. Those are quite a bit rarer than chirps which are only audible at idle & even then not very noticeable above the normal "singer sewing machine" sound of a high compression 4cyl.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[dnieves]

I'm all for making issues known to get them remedied but a class action lawsuit about the crickets results in the lawyers getting rich, bad publicity for the car, and we get a $10 coupon to shut us up.

Not exactly a worthwhile proposition.

[Jen]

I'm basing this on the stories of "I'm on my third fuel pump, car was in the shop for 15 days" etc

Those of you who still think I'm a troll
(1) I went to the dealer to BUY this car. When it made the tick tick tick sound, LOUD, I didn't buy it
(2) I LOVE the FRS. It is way better than the Camaro and Mustang
(3) I will buy an FRS in a few years once the "quirks" are under control

I'm hoping I will have fewer issues with the Camaro. We already had issues with the Challenger (ECU replaced), so I'm not under the illusion that new cars are without issues. The Camaro has been out since 2010 so issues should be under control.

[thill]

So the crickets should be a class action lawsuit, but you would happily buy a car from GM.... Perhaps you have not read up on the ignition issues at GM recently that resulted in many deaths. One poor girl brought her car to them three times and they told her nothing was wrong. She is now dead. All for a part GM knew was faulty and cost less than $1 to manufacture.

[jdcorbitt3]

Originally Posted by robwbright

Yep. From my experience with and information about GM, they generally do a much worse job on the small things than the Japanese automakers do. I think it's ironic that someone is expecting less issues with a GM car. From what I remember, the 80s/90s/00s Camaros were notorious for rattles and squeaks. Never had one, but I seem to recall a lot of complaints. Can't speak for the 14s, though.

I had a C6 Vette. From the showroom floor, it creaked anytime I pulled into my driveway. Fit and finish have been an issue for GM, but they build amazing engines. The Nisan GTR clutch rattled, which didn't bother me, but my buddy traded it in on a 997 turbo because it drove him nuts. The crickets are a character of the direct injection, just like clutch rattle. It doesn't bother me at all.

John

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Jen

I'm basing this on the stories of "I'm on my third fuel pump, car was in the shop for 15 days" etc

Those of you who still think I'm a troll
(1) I went to the dealer to BUY this car. When it made the tick tick tick sound, LOUD, I didn't buy it
(2) I LOVE the FRS. It is way better than the Camaro and Mustang
(3) I will buy an FRS in a few years once the "quirks" are under control

I'm hoping I will have fewer issues with the Camaro. We already had issues with the Challenger (ECU replaced), so I'm not under the illusion that new cars are without issues. The Camaro has been out since 2010 so issues should be under control.

Has anyone's fuel pump actually died, or are you just talking about the people who keep taking the car in to get the fuel pump replaced due to the slight chirping nose it can sometimes make at idle? I haven't seen any reports of fuel pumps dying, and as for the latter, the easy solution for that is to just live with the noise, since it doesn't seem to be hurting anything. Besides, I bet I could find a few worrying issues with a Camaro too, if I went through a Camaro forum for an hour or so.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Jen

I'm basing this on the stories of "I'm on my third fuel pump, car was in the shop for 15 days" etc

(3) I will buy an FRS in a few years once the "quirks" are under control

Those are replaced at owners request, there is zero effect on reliability of the car. There have been zero fuel pump failures out of 30,000+ cars sold here aside from the two that were improperly installed.

The way Toyobaru are treating it, these 'quirks' will not be solved as long as the car utilizes Toyota's D4-S injection system. They've already been on the road for nearly 2 years at this point.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Jen

I'm picking up a 2014 Camaro tomorrow. I'm going to hold on to it until Toyota/Subaru gets this car sorted out. I've watched YouTube videos, read stories about people bringing this car to the dealer for the fuel pump, tail light, ECU, and who knows what else. I can't do this right now, I would be too pissed. You guys have an awesome car. It rides better than the Camaro or Mustang, but I can't deal with the reliability issues.

If someone is buying one you can get a black 2013 From Westchester Toyota in Yonkers NY with the "crickets" for 22k as well as a silver one at New Holland Toyota for the same price, that sounded even worse. Thanks guys. I give you credit for overlooking this stuff.

Just isn't right...

I would recommend a class action lawsuit to get this fixed.

These sounds are what a healthy, high compression direct injection 4cyl motor SOUND like. It's not abnormal or overly loud (these are at idle in quiet surroundings outside the car with the hood up, too) either.

Welcome to direct injection & federally mandated E10 gas. Don't like the sound, don't get a DI motor. But there's no unhealthy sounds in those motors or overly annoying chirps.

The real cricket issue does crop up, where the cricket chirps are quite louder, but in those much rarer instances they can clearly be heard in the cabin at idle with radio on & hood down. But, again, those are rarer instances & still not an actual reliability issue.

These aren't going to sound like port injection only v6's or the grumbling marble sound of a 5.0L v8, or the whispering wussiness of an ecobox's low compression inline 4.

The high compression & DI are going to make an engine sound akin to a singer sewing machine. It's not what you're used to, but it's still a healthy sound. And with the hood down, in the cabin you can't hear the very quiet chirping of the high pressure fuel pump.

You're basically going bonkers over absolutely nothing. So instead yo settle for a car you know you (by your own admission) won't enjoy nearly as much (if at all) and which has actual very serious potential failure issues. Yet you did so b/c you didn't like this very minor, very normal sound from a di hpfp & believed the chicken Littles who call the rarer loud hpfp chirps a reliability problem.

Riiiiiiiiiight.

We'd be way more chill if you'd said something like "cool car, but I simply want more power" or "I'm just into bigger cars" or something preference-based. Those are fine. We all have our tastes & preferences, but to come in here, praise the car for what it is, say you love it, but walk away citing reliability & how the (very quiet) chirps are simply "not right" (when they are)... Well, that's just being disingenuous in some of our eyes.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[regal]

I owned a mechanical direct injected diesel '85 Golf, you think our engines idle load you haven't hear real direct injection.




Direct injction is a great thing, it saves gas and gets the most power out of the gas. To me that noise is a non-issue, I could care less about crickets are ticking its the nature of the tech.




What is possibly bother some is the VVT noise under load around 5k. This engine is supposed to a "classic" rev happy N/A engine, yet it is far from it. The noises in the powerband )over 5k) IMHO are alrming. The interview with the Avo engineer posted in Dezoris's thread is what needs to be figured out not cricket.


IMHO crickets means there is some mechanical wear, how much? No one knows for sure but it must be minmal as many higher milage cars are growing. A pump is easy to replace and not expensive. Only real concern is this engine is a one-off not being used in any other car and that can lead to ridiculous prices for simple parts.


My concern has always been the power band, vvt noise, breaking camshafts, and the DI seal. My gut is that the DI seal and VVT are both people tuning who are still learning this complex engine control, however my stock FRS has the VVT noise (I am however stuck on a 2012 factory tune.)


The interview with the Avo engineer is a bit scary, he tells us this is Subaru's 3rd attempt at VVT and there are situations where the VVT can starve the shortblock. That's what this forum needs to be concerned with, not crickets. Avo probably knows more about the FA20 than about anyone outside of Subaru. JMHO.




Its ashame this engine when revved doesn't give a confidence inspiring feeling like the 2zz or F20c. Yes I know that's totally subjective, but there is a 2-stroke chain saw feeling to it over 5-6k rpm.


Luckily the headgaskets seem to be lasting which is a miracle for modern Subaru's.


Hope folks are wrong about all of this and these engine prove as bullet proof as the good ole' subby 2.2L/


As far as the 2nd gear issue in cold weather, it got down to 0F here this winter and I had know issues at all. I need to change the fluid and have Motul but I'm considering staying stock. Is it possible folks just aren't used to driving a precise manual gear box?

[SirBrass]

You're not helping, regal. Your concerns have been addressed. What you're hearing there is the cam profile changing on the intake side. Normal sounds of the engine breathing better. DI seals were not a problem, the transient knock was the issue & that's been fixed.

You're raving about nothing (again).

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[Boxer486]

Interesting, I had no idea people were mistakenly classifying the sewing machine sound as crickets till now. No wonder some of them keep changing pumps to no avail. That's like taking a suppository for a headache.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

You're raving about nothing (again).

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

To be fair we're all on the same page that crickets and DI noise are the last thing to worry about on this car.

DI seals, axles breaking with modified suspension, oil starved motors and the cam sensor seems to still pop up every once and awhile.

Good thing they didn't turn on the A/C during the test drive, the idle hunting would have been a huge turnoff as well.

Helping is subjective, agreed that regal is probably the foremost chicken little but if an internet post turns you off a car that in the grand scheme of things has been pretty reliable it's probably a good thing. I know I wouldn't be happy with a car I worried about everytime I drove it regardless of reality.