Do any short shifters improve the downshift to 2nd?

[dave77]

Originally Posted by Monogram

I'm not going to get into the number of stick shift vehicles I've owned, but it is probably more than the number of years you have been alive. I clearly understand the conversation, and while you are correct that a modern transmission does not require double-clutching, it makes shifts much smoother, and requires less work of the syncro's. Rev matching the engine to speed is only one part of the equation. Try it, and you'll understand ... Or not.

You really don't need to be double clutching man. But I'm happy you like it.

[dave77]

Originally Posted by Monogram

You are incorrect.

[jamesm]

Motul 300 + mtec springs + whiteline/perrin bushing combo + flossy knob has me shifting smooth as silk. I love it!

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by dave77

You really don't need to be double clutching man. But I'm happy you like it.

I double clutch downshifts when I have the time (not on an autocross course). You can definitely tell the difference in feel when you double clutch, because the shifter just sucks into place without any resistance. I want my synchros and tranny to last as long as possible, so I'll double clutch and not use (wear) my synchros. I use the synchros on the track.

Plus, showing people how to double clutch is pretty badass, because racecar.

I don't double clutch downshifts because I have to. I do it because I want to.

[Panman]

Lets clarify here:


Double-Clutching is not Heel/Toe


Double-Clutching is: Clutch in, Shift to neutral, Clutch-out, Blip throttle, Clutch-In, Shift to gear, Clutch-Out


Heel-Toe: Clutch in, blip throttle while applying brake with the same foot (heel/toe), Shift to gear, Clutch-Out.


Heel-Toe makes a difference for me, in this car (Short Shifter, Redline, Perrin and Cusco bushes, was worse previously).


Double-Clutching was required for on-synchro gearboxes (typically racing dog boxes), and should not be required for these cars.

[dave77]

Yea ofc, heel-toe and blipping is good. I never downshift w/o blipping the throttle.

[RacerX]

Shifting from 3rd to 2nd, or 4th to 5th, requires you to over come the centering springs. I remember when I first started learning stick I hated those shifts because I was worried I'd go into the wrong gear by accident. I was doing what you are and thinking "down, left, down" when going form 3rd to 2nd. Don't think of it like that. Just push the stick in a diagonal motion and it'll go straight in. 4th to 5th was tricky until I realized I can just pretend it's a straight diagonal line. Now I don't even think about it. I don't think a short shifter or aftermarket components will help. Just push or pull the sifter in direction of the next gear you want, and it'll find its way there. It'll zig zag on its own.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Panman

Lets clarify here:


Double-Clutching is not Heel/Toe


Double-Clutching is: Clutch in, Shift to neutral, Clutch-out, Blip throttle, Clutch-In, Shift to gear, Clutch-Out


Heel-Toe: Clutch in, blip throttle while applying brake with the same foot (heel/toe), Shift to gear, Clutch-Out.


Heel-Toe makes a difference for me, in this car (Short Shifter, Redline, Perrin and Cusco bushes, was worse previously).


Double-Clutching was required for on-synchro gearboxes (typically racing dog boxes), and should not be required for these cars.

And you can heel-toe double-clutch rev-match

But there's two definitions of heel-toe double-clutching. There's the combination of heel-toe and traditional double-clutch, but wikipedia says there's another definition (I've never heard it used this way):

Heel-and-toe-double-clutch is the technique of downshifting more than one gear to use engine braking in the intermediate gear. This provides maximum braking and optimal engine RPM for exiting the corner. While this is not double-clutching in the traditional sense, the term is used to describe this technique since the clutch is pressed more than once.

[gramicci101]

That's just heel-toe downshifting through multiple gears. Yeah the clutch is pressed more than once, because you're shifting down again.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by gonzo

And you can heel-toe double-clutch rev-match

But there's two definitions of heel-toe double-clutching. There's the combination of heel-toe and traditional double-clutch, but wikipedia says there's another definition (I've never heard it used this way):

Heel-and-toe-double-clutch is the technique of downshifting more than one gear to use engine braking in the intermediate gear. This provides maximum braking and optimal engine RPM for exiting the corner. While this is not double-clutching in the traditional sense, the term is used to describe this technique since the clutch is pressed more than once.

I call that double heel toe down shift... and I do it daily... I always heel toe 5th to fourth to third...


As far as the topic goes

The only problem I find with 2nd gear is that the difference in gear ratio is lager compared to the rest of the gears, so I often miss it by 100 revs or less...I have Mtec shift springs and Motul 300 oil as my only trans mods

[dave77]

Yea I'm gonna get on the MTEC springs, and maybe the motul oil too.

[dave77]

Originally Posted by RacerX

Shifting from 3rd to 2nd, or 4th to 5th, requires you to over come the centering springs. I remember when I first started learning stick I hated those shifts because I was worried I'd go into the wrong gear by accident. I was doing what you are and thinking "down, left, down" when going form 3rd to 2nd. Don't think of it like that. Just push the stick in a diagonal motion and it'll go straight in. 4th to 5th was tricky until I realized I can just pretend it's a straight diagonal line. Now I don't even think about it. I don't think a short shifter or aftermarket components will help. Just push or pull the sifter in direction of the next gear you want, and it'll find its way there. It'll zig zag on its own.

Ok, I fully understand this. Do you acknowledge what I'm saying here in this thread?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

I call that double heel toe down shift... and I do it daily... I always heel toe 5th to fourth to third...


As far as the topic goes

The only problem I find with 2nd gear is that the difference in gear ratio is lager compared to the rest of the gears, so I often miss it by 100 revs or less...I have Mtec shift springs and Motul 300 oil as my only trans mods

Always try to overshoot the revs going into 2nd. Make it feel awkward and unnatural. It matched more often once I started doing that, or I'll catch it on the way down.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by dave77

No dude, you definitely do not need to double clutch. It seems like you came out of a time machine from the 1960s.

He's telling you what he does to help with the problem you're describing and his opinion on double clutching. You definitely do not need to do many things in life. Understand it's his opinion and don't be an ass when his opinion differs from yours.

I acknowledge what you're saying here. I had the same isssue shifting from 4th to 5th. It feels like I have to meticulously move the shifter into N then right and up to 5th. The shift springs only made the shifter pop out of gears quicker. I'd suggest starting with a heavy knob because that helped a lot. After that I'd get a tranny insert like the whiteline or the perrin rear mount: that really helped with downshifting into 2nd during autocross.

I'd suggest a short shifter, but my BPS shifter makes a rattling sound above 5k rpm. Those guys promised a fix but no word from them more than a year later. I should try contacting them again. Maybe the kartboy doesn't have this issue?