Guys, would you say our FRS's handling is same or better than BMW's?

[acro]

I have not driven an m car but varying generations of the 3 series. They do not handle as well as the Frs. In fact the last 335 I drove felt like a boat in comparison. A friend who has a 1M commented when he drove in my car that the Frs seems a lot more nimble. I guess the low weight and the setup of the car really does make a difference.

So I say the 86 is a better handler than a non M BMW at least

[cjsporl1996]

As for BMW's I have driven a 1998 e36 M3, 2013 535i M sport, 2014 x5 xdrive35i. My favorite of those three I would have to pick the 1998 M3. Simplicity, one of best handling car of the 90's, and a exhaust note that sounds like pure sex. The 1998 m3 has a much stiffer suspension but I can say the FRS/BRZ has the potential to be a better handling car than the e36. The reason why i said it has potential is because first of all our cars lack power. Second of all our cars have crappy tires, etc But in the end we are comparing apples to oranges here. Different category of a car, price range, age group, etc

[Deep Six]

E36 M3 is a kindred spirit to the twins. More so than any other car in my opinion as they can be very fast (race track) on minimal power. Chassis is nearly 20 years old but the best ever from Bravaria in my humble opinion.

[Rosso_Corsa]

Interesting discussion. Check out this thread for my own M235i vs. 86 impressions. I just came back from thrashing the M235i at the track!

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

BMW's will always lose, because all the coolant and oil they leak makes their tires slide all over the place.

Right Tut?

My SpecE30 doesn't leak coolant, but it does leak oil, tranny fluid, and diff fluid . All good racecars do amirite? The one time it did leak coolant, I did feel it on the rear tires for two laps before I realized I no longer had any coolant in the engine when it wouldn't pull down the back straight at Nashville.

Damn BMW design placed the sharp alternator pulley way too close to the lower radiator hose

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

We seem to lack a definition of "handling". Performance is about speed and power. Performance is great. Neither the FR-S nor the M3 are performance kings, though the M3 clearly smashes the FR-S on overall performance. Handling means a lot of things, but mainly having a large, friendly, fun, graceful, predictable zone on the edge of adhesion. Then you need clear signalling from the car to the driver and swift, accurate responses from the driver inputs.

Handling to me is defined by which car can get through a given corner quicker including corner entry speed, mid corner speed, and corner exit speed.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by King Tut

My SpecE30 doesn't leak coolant, but it does leak oil, tranny fluid, and diff fluid . All good racecars do amirite? The one time it did leak coolant, I did feel it on the rear tires for two laps before I realized I no longer had any coolant in the engine when it wouldn't pull down the back straight at Nashville.

Damn BMW design placed the sharp alternator pulley way too close to the lower radiator hose

LOL my car leaks like a mofo. Mostly engine. Trans is fine, diff seeps out of one seal. It was replaced in June 2013 though so leaking by now shouldn't be surprising..

I don't even know all the places the engine leaks.. I suspect: front main, rear main, oil pan gasket, VC gasket, oil filter housing gasket, timing chain gaskets. I think the VANOS line is OK though!!

[johnnyfast11]

handling is all modified and tuned. not to bash your topic. but this is not a good question/thread.

stock vs stock. 99% of us can't max out the factory settings anyway. so.

[frumplejoon]

Originally Posted by N1rve

The only BMW I've driven is a BMW E36 M3... that clutch was stiff as hell. But back onto handling... the FRS is hands down better than THAT BMW.

Yeah that one sounds odd, the thing I miss most about my E36 M3 is its powertrain; everything about it was just sooooo smooth. It's a great one for a newbie manual driver! And I wish they could manage a sunroof into the 86

Never got a chance to track the E36 but stock for stock (well sort of, had 235s all around) I think it would spank the 86 performance-wise through all but the tightest corners. The E36 M3 has gobs of grip and remained fairly neutral and easy to manage, though it felt much heavier. Also liked the feedback in the E36 more (maybe it was just because it was older). Both chassis feel pretty damn good... would be interesting to try my BRZ with stickier tires but that takes away from the fun!

I was also pretty lucky with fluid leaks with only power steering issues. No engine oil leaks, instead it just burned it up at a crazy rate. All the black smoke was a good way to get people off your ass though

[Boxer-86]

My FR-S handled much better than my 2013 135i with the M Sport package. The 135i was fast, but pretty boring to drive due to the lack of nimbleness, loose steering, lack of sensation of speed and open diff that spoils all hopes of fun. I only had the 135i for 6 months and will be trading it in on a BRZ Limited this week..

[f0rge]

My M3 was modded, and although I appear to be in the minority here, I feel that it handled better than my FRS. It was more planted and stable and just squatted into a corner and gripped hard.

The steering was also more communicative and it was easier to place the car in a corner.

I had an e46 with TC Kline D/A coilovers and hotchkis swaybars, competition pkg 19's with 245/275 tires.

[juliog]

I'm very disappointed with the curb weight of the USDM M4, manual/auto are 3530/3585 lbs

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by juliog

I'm very disappointed with the curb weight of the USDM M4, manual/auto are 3530/3585 lbs

As compared to what other vehicle its size or price?

[Tank]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

E36 M3 is a kindred spirit to the twins. More so than any other car in my opinion as they can be very fast (race track) on minimal power. Chassis is nearly 20 years old but the best ever from Bravaria in my humble opinion.

As a bit of a disclaimer; I'm not a pro, just a nut.

I moved to the FRS from a sedan e36 325i - with wider tires, suspension & lsd. Day to day driving was better in the e36.. Especially the lack of blind spots, smoothness of the transmission, and the interesting effect of people not cutting me off so much (fear of BMW drivers?).

The FRS is better at handling in terms of changing direction and steering feel. The e36 had a lot of body roll in comparison. The rear end was far more difficult to step out and the diff took a bit of effort to make use of. I felt very comfortable throwing the e36 into a slide on a rainy day. It was easy to control and took a bit of effort to spin if you had the right momentum. The FRS on the other hand is easy to put into a slide, but feels much more unforgiving if you hit the limit of the slide angle; this may be an observation tied to 8 years with the e36 chassis. Don't get too aggressive with the FRS and you're sliding around like a pro in a short period of time.

With my experience of grip-driving, the e36 had much more of a tendency to understeer, and has also been the only RWD car that I've managed somewhat controlled 4-wheel slides in (playing around in the wet). The understeer could be easily countered with some weight shifting and more aggressive throttle. Coming out of a turn I could also be on the throttle much harder without fear of the rear end breaking loose. I feel I get on the throttle later in the FRS and have to be mindful of the throttle at turn exit. The FRS will communicate to you very early when the front tires are losing grip, and has a much wider area of this feel. You have a very large window telling you to back off a little bit. This is probably more-so a characteristic of the tires.

Over rough and undulating surfaces, the FRS feels much more composed. I think the lower control arm bushings on the front of the e36 were to blame for this. You had to let the car move under you somewhat and ignore the feeling that the car was going to dart left or right over that huge bump you just hit. I had to replace those bushings every 30k to keep that behaviour at bay. The M3 has a more robust bushing in this location. 90% of the time replacement bushings make all the difference, but sometimes it really pays to have the upgrade.

Brakes on both felt very close! However, the pedal feel in the e36 was more solid (even being 20+ years old). You still feel that you have plenty control over the force exerted on the brakes with both cars. The e36 may have had a little bit more biasing towards the rear, and I didn't have any problems with the ABS interfering. I'm not sure what the bias is in the ft86, but I'd like to try it out with a little more bias towards the rear (even 2.5%-5%). With the TC off in the FRS, there is some interference when trying to brake while turning. I noticed this trying to do a slide by getting on the brakes, turning the wheel, then kicking the clutch. I think it will also interfere if you try to brake too quickly without letting the weight of the car shift forwards before going full on the brake, which is probably a good thing.

In terms of motor, the FRS has enough power, but for me, It needs more torque. The drop in power kills me for every-day fun as it's right in the mid-range. I either need to drive conservatively or completely hoon it. The BMW straight 6 was great at all revs. There was plenty of low-end torque for driving around town; starting off without revving as much. It had very linear power through the revs, it almost didn't matter where you were in the revs - as long as you were in the right gear, you had your choice of how hard you wanted to go through a turn. The FRS requires much more care with this, you really need to plan ahead. This comes back to the torque. I think I'd sacrifice 1k revs up top for some lower end torque. It has been awhile since I thought about changing cams/headers in a car.

Thinking of a kindred spirit, my vote goes towards the Porsche 944 S2 or 968. If you get a chance to sit in one or drive it, you'll understand.