Anyone running stock rims with good tires for open track?

[bkblitzed]

The primacys once basically finished are fairly unpredictable

[DR 86]

You will definitely wear out the shoulders on the Primacy tire, sidewall is way too soft even at higher inflation pressures.

[CSG David]

The Primacy is actually pretty good...

[BatStig]

I have done five HPDE's and one lapping day on the Primacys. Just like those before have said: they are GREAT learning tools and are quicker than you'd expect. I highly suggest burning those up first.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

I have ZERO track experience...xxx are going to cost me an extra $nnn that could be used for track time

General Rule #1: Track time first, non-safety related upgrades second.

Most drivers upgrade their cars long before they're getting the most out of what they've already got. A combo of autocross and track time with good instructor(s) will likely get you there the soonest.

[suaveflooder]

I keep reading this @dradernh! Great to hear this information come across consistently. Sounds like I need to get some brake fluid in the car and call it a day for now. I appreciate the advice! I am fortunate to have guys like @whataboutbob who is AWESOME and more than willing to jump into a car with you and give you pointers!

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

Sounds like I need to get some brake fluid in the car and call it a day for now.

Advice: Fresh, high temp, high performance brake fluid; appropriate track brake pads (the OEM pads are likely to fade badly by lap 3, by all accounts); and install the camber bolts on the front, and dial in the maximum possible negative camber, as suggested.



Thoughts for my friend, Suave:


The standard street suspension setup will have the front tires rolling over onto their shoulders and just eating right through them when they're subjected to the kind of hard cornering encountered on a race track. As I think about it, I could see a novice chewing through those shoulders even sooner than an experienced driver who is actually a good deal quicker.

When you're just learning, you'll tend to charge into the corners too hard, and then compensate by dialing in excess steering lock which will exacerbate the problem of rolling those front tires onto their shoulders. This will accelerate that shoulder wear.

I'm not sure how much one can extend the life of the front tires with the camber bolts, but one could completely wear through the tire's shoulders over a two-day weekend without the additional negative camber afforded by the cheap camber bolts.

It would pay to do the camber bolts, I'd think.

Chewing through an $800 set of tires in a few days of lapping is expensive. The tires will last a good deal longer if only you can minimize that shoulder wear.

Talk to others about tire pressures. Don't look for maximum grip and speed, rather look for longevity. Make those shoulders last, screw your lap times. This way you'll get more seat time. My thought would be to crank up those tire pressures to as much as they can handle without becoming too squirrelly. 40-50 psi cold, maybe? (Then tweak the rear pressures to get the balance you want.) Do whatever it takes to make those tires last, because I'd think that's your limiting factor, how long your tires last before you're done for the weekend.

My thought would be to buy a set of tires that have racing-stiff sidewalls and heavily reinforced shoulders for hard cornering. You'll need smaller sizes to fit on your 7" OEM rims, if you stick with them initially. Don't buy these tires for speed, but rather for durability, longevity, and predictability, i.e. "good behavior." This is a different emphasis than what you'll likely do in the future should you choose to stick with the sport. Then, you'll start looking for speed.

If you pursue track days, you'll almost certainly end up buying a dedicated set of track wheels and tires. It might be better to just wait a bit, learn to drive, see how much you like it, and at that point, then consider what direction you want to follow. For now, my thought is to keep the cost down, and stay safe, of course.

A philosophical point, and very important, I think: You're just beginning, and I suggest that you would be wise to setup your car to be the least expensive, but best learning platform.

Do NOT go in search of speed. Not now.

You are there to learn to drive, and to develop your driving skills, to see how much natural talent you have.

You are NOT there to set lap records for your car's class/division.

This is an important distinction, I believe.

You don't need ultra-sticky, big, fat tires, for instance. Not as a neophyte. You need time and laps, and it will be expensive enough as it is without searching for more speed from your equipment. Learn to max out what you have.

More "seat time," and good instruction is what you need, not fancy, go-fast hardware.

This will keep the costs down, and it's safer this way, too.

But, I do understand the inevitable urges one may have to spend, spend, spend…

Anyway, there are some thoughts to consider.

Have fun, keep it upright, and stay off the walls.

[suaveflooder]

Haha!! Great post!! Thank you! Car is lowered with white line camber bolts maxed out! Other than brake fluid, sounds like I'm ready start! Like your advice about tires! Going to see what I can doing about keeping them alive

[smbstyle]

I ran the OEM Primacys then PSS on the stock rims.

Primacy's were terrible, the PSS weren't bad for the first few days, but they fell off quick. Outside shoulder was corded with -1.5* camber up front, with still almost perfect tread in the middle. I was surprised how much camber is needed to get these to wear evenly as a street tire.

They were pretty quiet when they had grip, but as grip fell off, they got NOISY, to the point where my friend had a GoPro inside his M3 with exhaust, was following me through a corner, and you could actually hear my tires screaming about 50 yards in front of him, lol.

Go to 4:04 in this video and listen to the PSS screaming for their life:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bvypz7eZvps&feature=share&list=UUmsIEcuCr-pOccJcgCwmPnQ&index=2"]Chin Motorsports Sebring E90 M3 - YouTube[/ame]

[7thgear]

there is nothing wrong with the OEM wheel

an aftermarket wheel, (if actually wider than OEM), will simply make an otherwise wider tire perform closer to the manufacturers expectations.

otherwise the OEM wheel is just as good as any other wheel, and can be argued is actually better in terms of durability than some of the aftermarket ones.

[TapDat]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Run the stock tires... and then warranty them for a set of PSS?

Didn't know the warranty would cover the tires.

Is this possible?

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by suaveflooder

Haha!! Great post!! Thank you! Car is lowered with white line camber bolts maxed out! Other than brake fluid, sounds like I'm ready start! Like your advice about tires! Going to see what I can doing about keeping them alive

Hey, Suave, something else just occurred to me:

If you should spin and find yourself stalled on the grass, especially longish, dry grass ... Get that sumbitch restarted and get off that grass! Right NOW!

Otherwise, you may find the very hot catalytic converter will set the grass alight beneath your beautiful car and the next thing you know, it's engulfed in flames and totaled!

If you happen to think of it at the time...

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Hey, Suave, something else just occurred to me:

If you should spin and find yourself stalled on the grass, especially longish, dry grass ... Get that sumbitch restarted and get off that grass! Right NOW!

Otherwise, you may find the very hot catalytic converter will set the grass alight beneath your beautiful car and the next thing you know, it's engulfed in flames and totaled!

If you happen to think of it at the time...

I saw that video!!! LOL!!! oops!!

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by TapDat

Didn't know the warranty would cover the tires.

Is this possible?

The stock Michelins have a 33k mile warranty I believe from Michelin, not Toyota. You get less than that, they are pro-rated toward new tires. You can get some money off.