Oil consumption-- 1qt/1000mi after break-in?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I really don't think mine's leaking it so much as burning it up. I don't see any on the ground where I park, nor do I get any "burning oil" smells wafting about while it's running.

Update time:


In all seriousness though, I am glad that the coolant level seems to hold. That's kind of a relief.

Well, Ganthrithor, good to read your coolant level has stabilized.

On the other hand, "using" a half quart of oil in 500 miles of highway driving just don't seem right to me, for a fairly new engine.

CALLING OUT to folks who heavily track their 86; under hard use, does this amount of oil consumption seem excessive to you .. ??

humfrz

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, Ganthrithor, good to read your coolant level has stabilized.

On the other hand, "using" a half quart of oil in 500 miles of highway driving just don't seem right to me, for a fairly new engine.

In fairness, it wasn't your average "highway driving" in any way, shape, or form. It would be much fairer to equate it with several hours of track time, although there was ~100mi of boring freeway driving somewhere in there as well.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

In fairness, it wasn't your average "highway driving" in any way, shape, or form. It would be much fairer to equate it with several hours of track time, although there was ~160mi of boring freeway driving somewhere in there as well.

Well, that's the reason I "called out" to some of the folks who track their cars, to get a reading from them.

I still don't think it should have used that much oil in 500 miles, unless you ran it WOT in first gear the whole time.


humfrz

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Well, that's the reason I "called out" to some of the folks who track their cars, to get a reading from them.

I still don't think it should have used that much oil in 500 miles, unless you ran it WOT in first gear the whole time.


humfrz

When I'm driving canyon roads I spend a lot of time WOT in first, second, and third, and usually have the engine spun up somewhere between 4500rpm and redline. I'm not WOT or hard on the brakes all the time like you would be on track, but it's definitely a lot closer to track use than it is to commuting. But yeah, more track oil use figures would always be helpful / potentially reassuring.

[DRACHENV6]

I would consider using a Mobil 1 5w30 or 10w30 (or equivalent) over 0w20. There is a big difference in certifications over 0w20 as well as a higher viscosity that will ensure better protection at higher temperatures or high rpms..

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

I would consider using a Mobil 1 5w30 or 10w30 (or equivalent) over 0w20. There is a big difference in certifications over 0w20 as well as a higher viscosity that will ensure better protection at higher temperatures or high rpms..

Actually, there is very little difference in certifications (API or ILSAC), very little difference in operational viscosity (many 5W-30's shear to a 20 grade), and very little difference in the additive packs between 0W-20 and xW-30 (maybe slightly more ZDDP in the xW-30). The main requirements for oil volatility, additive levels, and wear are all the same.
http://www.infineum.com/Documents/AP...ons%202010.pdf

I would probably go to a robust 0W-20 like Red Line or Motul 300V before going with a xW-30 (although they're not API certified). There are several uoa's here on both oils and they've held up very well in tracked and forced induction applications. These oils also usually have a higher High Temp High Shear viscosity (tested at 150C) than other oils as well. Higher HTHS usually sustains better viscosity and oil pressure over the interval.

Even some 5W-20's would be more robust than some 0W-20's or 5W-30's since they usually have less viscosity modifiers and have better volatility (less evaporation, it could help with consumption). Mobil1 5W-20 does get you a bit more of the anti-wear additive ZDDP over M1 0W-20 though.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Unfortunately, Mobil1 doesn't publish their volatility results like Pennzoil does (and a few other manufacturers). More on NOACK:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/noack.htm

-Dennis

[DRACHENV6]

Originally Posted by bluesubie

Actually, there is very little difference in certifications (API or ILSAC), very little difference in operational viscosity (many 5W-30's shear to a 20 grade), and very little difference in the additive packs between 0W-20 and xW-30 (maybe slightly more ZDDP in the xW-30). The main requirements for oil volatility, additive levels, and wear are all the same.
http://www.infineum.com/Documents/AP...ons%202010.pdf

I would probably go to a robust 0W-20 like Red Line or Motul 300V before going with a xW-30 (although they're not API certified). There are several uoa's here on both oils and they've held up very well in tracked and forced induction applications. These oils also usually have a higher High Temp High Shear viscosity (tested at 150C) than other oils as well. Higher HTHS usually sustains better viscosity and oil pressure over the interval.

Even some 5W-20's would be more robust than some 0W-20's or 5W-30's since they usually have less viscosity modifiers and have better volatility (less evaporation, it could help with consumption). Mobil1 5W-20 does get you a bit more of the anti-wear additive ZDDP over M1 0W-20 though.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
Unfortunately, Mobil1 doesn't publish their volatility results like Pennzoil does (and a few other manufacturers). More on NOACK:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/noack.htm

-Dennis

Thanks for taking the time to write.. Here are my thoughts if you have time to post back or for anyone else who is following.

1) Is there a good publication on the meaning behind the ILSAC and API rating categories? Besides differences in additive levels between 0w20 and xw30's, there are differences in ACEA approvals..

2) You make a good point about modifiers that I had not thought about. Following that same logic I would go on a limb and say 10w30 > 5w30 > 0w30 (looking at just the mobil 1 lineup) in terms of being robust and resisting evaporation. (fun fact: 10w30 is the factory fill for the supra)

3) Although I believe that many people have great UOA results using motul and redline, I am inclined to lean towards industry ratings over individual UOanalysis because they are measured against an objective standard. I never considered penzoil though, and will read more about it.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

Thanks for taking the time to write.. Here are my thoughts if you have time to post back or for anyone else who is following.

1) Is there a good publication on the meaning behind the ILSAC and API rating categories? Besides differences in additive levels between 0w20 and xw30's, there are differences in ACEA approvals..

2) You make a good point about modifiers that I had not thought about. Following that same logic I would go on a limb and say 10w30 > 5w30 > 0w30 (looking at just the mobil 1 lineup) in terms of being robust and resisting evaporation. (fun fact: 10w30 is the factory fill for the supra)

3) Although I believe that many people have great UOA results using motul and redline, I am inclined to lean towards industry ratings over individual UOanalysis because they are measured against an objective standard. I never considered penzoil though, and will read more about it.

Robustness is going to be based on base stocks and additives more than weight.


Also, depends on which Supra Then again, the second number is the important part for a hydrostatic bearing at operating temperature, but you can always go lower on the first number (for instance German Castrol 0w-30 is highly recommended in the Supra these days). Oil tech has come a hell of a long way.


Amsoil and Redline don't pass certification for a number of reasons (expense and they refuse to run the low amounts of phosphorous the government wants in the case of Amsoil), but certifications are minimum specs for the oils and they far exceed them.


Now keep in mind that the dealer COULD pin some kind of failure on you not running certified oils. For people that are boosted or otherwise have thrown their warranty away, this isn't an issue.

[ZZT86]

I have heard that Suraru boxer engines traditionally burn oil, how much depends on how it's run-in. It's OK for an engine to burn some oil but too much can be dicey especially when you forget to check the level every now & then. My 86 seems to be doing really well & I'm happy with what I'm seeing atm - I'm currently doing oil consumption tests & last night had a peek - no oil consumption for the last 2K kms. I always use the same oil, check in the same spot after a hot run & I change often. I think the "run-in" is key. Car is still relatively new with 16K kms & I don't race or thrash the $hit out of it.

[choi0706]

1qt per 1000mls is industry standard.. anything more is considered excessive..

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by DRACHENV6

Thanks for taking the time to write.. Here are my thoughts if you have time to post back or for anyone else who is following.

1) Is there a good publication on the meaning behind the ILSAC and API rating categories? Besides differences in additive levels between 0w20 and xw30's, there are differences in ACEA approvals..
Yeah, try google. API is the American Petroleum Institue and ILSAC is made up of Japanese and U.S. manufacturers. Some of the oil additive companies have some great info on their sties. This chart is a great comparison tool for different oil specs (read the disclaimer at the bottom though):
http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/RelativePerformanceTool/default.html

And here's some great info about GF-5:
http://gf-5.com/

This chart shows some of the minimum results required to meet certain specs (http://www.infineum.com/Documents/API/API%20Engine%20Oil%20Classifications%202010.pdf

2) You make a good point about modifiers that I had not thought about. Following that same logic I would go on a limb and say 10w30 > 5w30 > 0w30 (looking at just the mobil 1 lineup) in terms of being robust and resisting evaporation. (fun fact: 10w30 is the factory fill for the supra)
Somewhat true. Although viscosity modifiers today are much better than they were say five years ago.

3) Although I believe that many people have great UOA results using motul and redline, I am inclined to lean towards industry ratings over individual UOanalysis because they are measured against an objective standard. I never considered penzoil though, and will read more about it.
Yes, many people feel that way. OTOH, there are people that use Motul because they can formulate excellent race oils and also formulate excellent street oils that meet the toughest specs in the industry. Whereas Red Line chooses not to formulate oils to meet API/ILSAC specs.

-Dennis

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Amsoil and Redline don't pass certification for a number of reasons (expense and they refuse to run the low amounts of phosphorous the government wants in the case of Amsoil), but certifications are minimum specs for the oils and they far exceed them.

Although Amsoil does have the XL and OE lines which is fully API/ILSAC certified. Their top tier Signature Series oils aren't certified because Amsoil does not want to be restricted with their additives. And the phosphorus restriction is not from the government. To some degree it's the API, but the stricter requirements on ZDDP levels are from ILSAC for GF5. See the GF5 and Infineum links above.

-Dennis

[DarkSunrise]

Don't know if it helps, but I've used a 1/4 q of oil, if that. Since my last oil change, I've done 150 track miles, 2400 DD miles, and a handful of autocrosses.

[Ganthrithor]

Update time!

The other week I took a roadtrip up to Monterey (about 500mi round-trip). I started the trip at about 25% of the way between low and full on the dipstick, and finished about 15-20% above low on the dipstick. This was while cruising at ~75mph in sixth on the freeway almost the entire time. So-- when driven normally-- my car appears not to burn very much oil. That's good news!

In other good news, my coolant fill seems to be staying put. I guess the factory just didn't top off the overflow tank after bleeding the air out of the cooling system or something. Haven't had to add a drop since I topped it off to factory spec last month.

I'm coming up on 15k miles, so I'll probably be doing another oil change in April. My Blackstone kit is sitting on my desk waiting for that to happen, and I'll let you guys know what I find when I get those results back, but I'm much less concerned now than I was when I first found my oil level low.