Oil consumption-- 1qt/1000mi after break-in?

[Wepeel]

That definitely seems like a lot of oil. Especially on this motor - there aren't a lot of reports of burning oil at that rate, if any at all. Maybe try a different oil for a while, see if that changes anything.

As far as potential leaks - the only problematic oil leaking area I've seen is the rear cam plate on the passenger side of the motor. Check that area to see if there is any evidence of leaking. I still don't think that would explain the rate of leakage you're noticing but still worth a look.

Good luck.

[toeout]

Scion's owners manual states that max oil consumption should be under 1.1qt/600 miles. Which of course is utter BS, but that cuts the complaints down.


Blue smoke used to be a good indicator for burning oil, but it seems that the cat converters are so efficient in burning it off, that you might not see it. I have Econoline 350 ( just like ft86!), that uses about 1 qt/1000 miles and it doesn't smoke at all. Doesn't leak either, so I know it's been burned off. It also covers the sparkplugs with white crusty ash.


I would also suggest to complain to SoA. 1 qt/1000 miles is not acceptable on such new car.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I've held off on UOAs so far because I didn't want to send in samples from the first couple of oil changes. I'll probably send a sample off when I get my fourth oil change (sample from the third non-factory fill) since the first two fills will hopefully have flushed out any break-in particulate.

I assume I should be looking for coolant in the oil?

Not coolant, but just anything out of the ordinary when it comes to particles, fuel, etc.

I suggest this because it will be a lot of speculation and personal experience (see rest of thread for the wide range of responses), and without actually having some data in your hands it's all a moot point.

If you want you can always drain your oil cleanly into a container, take a sample, then refill with the same oil to not waste anything. This is why I got a Fumoto valve, so I can have this option. 8000-mile oil change intervals are great for the environment and efficiency, but sometimes you need to figure out what is wrong before the next oil change.

And frankly if you're worried about excessive engine wear, pull the fuel pump fuse and crank the engine a few times to get oil going in the block.

-alex

[Ganthrithor]

Well, I've ordered a kit from Blackstone. Looks like it will take a week or two to arrive, although I may wait a little longer before pulling a sample anyway, just to give this fill a little more time to collect contaminants (it's been in less than 1500mi IIRC). In the meantime I think I'll try putting something under the car to check for drips, and having someone else rev the car out a bit while I watch the tailpipes for smoke. I'll probably put some more miles on driving down to the dealer (a 1.5 hr trip... ugh) to pick up some fancy Subaru coolant so I can get the overflow tank filled up properly and marked for reference.

Hopefully this engine isn't drinking oil as fast as I think it is, but I guess we'll see.

[BRZZZZZZZZZZ]

Spec here in Canada is 1L/2000KM as per my owners manual, and states if its any worse to contact a Subaru dealer, I suggest starting an official oil consumption report with a dealer, and have them add and record oil consumption every time you need to top it up, that way there is concrete evidence that can be directly sent to Subaru USA as to how much its burning and at what intervals.

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

Well, I've ordered a kit from Blackstone. Looks like it will take a week or two to arrive, although I may wait a little longer before pulling a sample anyway, just to give this fill a little more time to collect contaminants (it's been in less than 1500mi IIRC)..

I wouldn't bother with a uoa at this point either. At least wait until 3-4k+ miles.

-Dennis

[smbstyle]

If you were loosing a quart per 1k miles from an oil leak, you certainly wouldn't need cardboard under your car; that would be a SIGNIFICANT leak.

How is the car used? I know for track days I'll loose anywhere between 1/8 and 1/4 qt per weekend on track, but no noticeable loss when driving around town.

Also, if you are driving the car hard, it will be normal for the coolant level to stay at the LOW mark when cold. I have tested this, and found that if I fill it above the LOW mark when cold, after some hard miles, it will return to the LOW mark and stay there, which indicates that is the normal level when cold. If it was leaking, it would continue to drop below the LOW mark.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by smbstyle

If you were loosing a quart per 1k miles from an oil leak, you certainly wouldn't need cardboard under your car; that would be a SIGNIFICANT leak.

How is the car used? I know for track days I'll loose anywhere between 1/8 and 1/4 qt per weekend on track, but no noticeable loss when driving around town.

Also, if you are driving the car hard, it will be normal for the coolant level to stay at the LOW mark when cold. I have tested this, and found that if I fill it above the LOW mark when cold, after some hard miles, it will return to the LOW mark and stay there, which indicates that is the normal level when cold. If it was leaking, it would continue to drop below the LOW mark.

If it's normal to burn oil quickly while driving hard, then maybe nothing's wrong. I don't track the car but it does see plenty of reasonably hard back-roads driving where I'm holding gears to redline, going WOT frequently, etc. I don't beat on the engine either-- I always try to stay below ~3500 rpm after a cold start until the water jacket warms up to normal temps, try to keep an eye on oil levels, change the oil a little more frequently than the factory mandates, etc-- but it does get a workout. It's rare for me to take the car out and not hit redline or go WOT unless the trip is too short for the engine to warm up. On weekends I sometimes go for a 100+ mile drive into the mountains; on uphill bits I'll often spend basically the whole time between 5500 and redline.

I'd guess that driving like this is a little easier on the engine than tracking the car would be, but it's probably closer to track use than it is to most people's DD/commuting use.

WRT the coolant level, I've been checking it every few days and it doesn't seem to be moving. It just sits right below the "low" line when cold (somewhere about 1/3 to halfway between low and full when warm). That's strange that when you fill it it goes right back to low again straight away. I don't have anything else to do today so maybe I'll go get some coolant and see if mine does the same thing.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

I'd guess that driving like this is a little easier on the engine than tracking the car would be, but it's probably closer to track use than it is to most people's DD/commuting use.

Assuming I drive the full season of 86Cup this year, I can safely say that your driving style is about 2-3x more abusive on the engine than me with my 10-12 track events.

And my commute is a short 15 miles RT daily with no freeway driving.

-alex

[smbstyle]

Originally Posted by Ganthrithor

If it's normal to burn oil quickly while driving hard, then maybe nothing's wrong. I don't track the car but it does see plenty of reasonably hard back-roads driving where I'm holding gears to redline, going WOT frequently, etc. I don't beat on the engine either-- I always try to stay below ~3500 rpm after a cold start until the water jacket warms up to normal temps, try to keep an eye on oil levels, change the oil a little more frequently than the factory mandates, etc-- but it does get a workout. It's rare for me to take the car out and not hit redline or go WOT unless the trip is too short for the engine to warm up. On weekends I sometimes go for a 100+ mile drive into the mountains; on uphill bits I'll often spend basically the whole time between 5500 and redline.

I'd guess that driving like this is a little easier on the engine than tracking the car would be, but it's probably closer to track use than it is to most people's DD/commuting use.

WRT the coolant level, I've been checking it every few days and it doesn't seem to be moving. It just sits right below the "low" line when cold (somewhere about 1/3 to halfway between low and full when warm). That's strange that when you fill it it goes right back to low again straight away. I don't have anything else to do today so maybe I'll go get some coolant and see if mine does the same thing.

Yeah, I'm willing to bet it's a result of your driving style; sounds about in line with my driving ON track, lol.

It drops to the LOW mark after hard driving because the LOW mark is the cold full level, anything over that will spill over when at full hot temps, especially with track driving. Same thing happened on my Miata race car; I would top it off and it would drop back to the same level every time but stay there, and I realized that was just the cold full level.

[jonboy99]

Yep, seeing that usage i'm a little less sure that there is an issue with the car.

What I can't understand is why cars driven hard can use so much oil, whereas I have ridden bikes (most of which making between 140 and 160whp per litre displacement) for years including many track days, large amounts of time spent between 8 and 15k rpm, yet none of them have ever burnt a drop of oil. Why are cars different?

[Ganthrithor]

Well this sounds encouraging. I'll be curious to see what the UOA results are when I do my next oil change, but it's good to know that burning these quantities of oil isn't that abnormal when the car's being driven hard.

I wonder what the engine rebuild interval will be-- guess we'll have to wait and see how things wear.

I did pick up coolant today and will try adding an inch or so to the overflow tank tomorrow and seeing if the level stays put after some hard driving or if it drops back down to the low mark again.

Thanks for all the replies, guys! I'll let you know what I find.

[Benny_Lava]

You might want to check this out.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuwaaJ3f5eU"]OIL LEAK REPAIR | FRS BRZ - YouTube[/ame]

His was leaking oil from a plate on passenger side head.

[Ganthrithor]

Originally Posted by Benny_Lava

You might want to check this out.

His was leaking oil from a plate on passenger side head.

I really don't think mine's leaking it so much as burning it up. I don't see any on the ground where I park, nor do I get any "burning oil" smells wafting about while it's running.

Update time:

I added some coolant last week and did plenty of hard driving between then and now (My usual mountain roads lap, plus a Sunday of canyon-work in Malibu. On a side note, Yerba Buena road is a completely unhinged place to drive-- I'm glad I went, and I did have fun, but it's the sort of thing I probably won't do again for fear of my luck running out. Yikes, what a ridiculous, claustrophobic, sort-of-paved bunch of craziness). So far, the coolant levels seem stable, hovering about halfway between low and full cold and topping out just above, "full," when hot, with no apparent overflow of any kind.

Oil continues to vanish at a rapid rate: I filled it up to around 3/4's of the way up the acceptable range before these driving shenanigans, and it's already back down to about 1/3 of the way up-- a bit under half a quart in a bit under 500 miles. This is a thirsty car!

My UOA sample kit has arrived from Blackstone, so I'll probably change the oil around 15k mi and collect a sample then. Will I have completely changed the oil by then through the combination of vanishing oil and top-offs? If the car had an oil level gauge next to the fuel gauge, which would hit empty first on a spirited drive? Who knows!

In all seriousness though, I am glad that the coolant level seems to hold. That's kind of a relief.