OpenFlash Tablet E85 (and gasoline) Maps now available

[continuecrushing]

Cold start issue is one problem I do have. Unfortunately I'm driving forth a lot for work right now, so I haven't had a chance to mess with the start tables in the oft. However, it starts on the 3rd crank usually. I'm probably on my 5th or 6th straight tank of straight e85.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Shutter

Cold start issue is one problem I do have. Unfortunately I'm driving forth a lot for work right now, so I haven't had a chance to mess with the start tables in the oft. However, it starts on the 3rd crank usually. I'm probably on my 5th or 6th straight tank of straight e85.

Add around 2 gals CA 91 pump gas to 11 gals Propel e85 and it will start clean. I did this for roughly 2 months with no issues. I'm also in So Cal.

[86viper]

Hey guys

Got my OFT (yay!)

Had 1/4 tank of 98 (our premium here in australia) so i flashed the stage 2 98 map.
Was great! Defiantly strong all over.

But i really wanted to go e85 as i have a local servo with e85. So i did the usual, ran it right down past the fuel light. Filled up with e85, ran 2KM, Flashed the E85 tune, Went nice and slow for about 10km, then a bit harder for the next 10, then opened her up.

The problem is, it feels way more flat than the 98 tune?
Its only partially better than completely stock tune. I cannot work out why. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong, it idles fine, its smooth, but the power just isnt there.

Here is a gear 1-3 highway on ramp pull log about 50km after flashing.

http://datazap.me/u/s13viper/e85-gear-1-3?log=0&data=2

http://datazap.me/u/s13viper/3rd-gear-highway-pull

Thoughts?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by 86viper

Hey guys

Got my OFT (yay!)

Had 1/4 tank of 98 (our premium here in australia) so i flashed the stage 2 98 map.
Was great! Defiantly strong all over.

But i really wanted to go e85 as i have a local servo with e85. So i did the usual, ran it right down past the fuel light. Filled up with e85, ran 2KM, Flashed the E85 tune, Went nice and slow for about 10km, then a bit harder for the next 10, then opened her up.

The problem is, it feels way more flat than the 98 tune?
Its only partially better than completely stock tune. I cannot work out why. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong, it idles fine, its smooth, but the power just isnt there.

Here is a gear 1-3 highway on ramp pull log about 50km after flashing.

http://datazap.me/u/s13viper/e85-gear-1-3?log=0&data=2

http://datazap.me/u/s13viper/3rd-gear-highway-pull

Thoughts?

looks ok to me.

maybe its because the E85 has better torque throughout the rev range, I found it especially good down low. As the torque is more linear it maybe feels "slow" as their is no "kick" at at a particular rev range ie torque dip is pretty much eliminated.

have you got a mate with an 86 you can compare with.

[86viper]

Originally Posted by steve99

looks ok to me.

maybe its because the E85 has better torque throughout the rev range, I found it especially good down low. As the torque is more linear it maybe feels "slow" as their is no "kick" at at a particular rev range ie torque dip is pretty much eliminated.

have you got a mate with an 86 you can compare with.

Yes plenty haha. The problem is, i was comparing the stage 2 98 tune to this e85 tune just 1 hour apart and it was defiantly weake.

I have a feeling it might be a low ethanol content. With this first tank it could be as low as e65 worst case.

Im going to drive to a servo with guaranteed e85 rather than just guaranteed e70-85.

But yes it was puzzling me as the actual logs look alright to me too and similar to everyone else's on stage 2 E85 maps.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by 86viper

Yes plenty haha. The problem is, i was comparing the stage 2 98 tune to this e85 tune just 1 hour apart and it was defiantly weake.

I have a feeling it might be a low ethanol content. With this first tank it could be as low as e65 worst case.

Im going to drive to a servo with guaranteed e85 rather than just guaranteed e70-85.

But yes it was puzzling me as the actual logs look alright to me too and similar to everyone else's on stage 2 E85 maps.

You would expect big LTFT if ethanol content was low. mine maxed about 1-2 where as yours is 5-6 so possibility

Shiv reckons tune is good from E60-E90

United E85 is aprarantly good , that what I used

[86viper]

Originally Posted by steve99

You would expect big LTFT if ethanol content was low.

Shiv reckons tune is good from E60-E90

United E85 is apparently good , that what I used

Yes united is e85 guaranteed. Its a bit further than my local which is a caltex but the caltex only offers 70% guaranteed

E60 might be safe, but power wise it can't make as much as full e85 though?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by 86viper

Yes united is e85 guaranteed. Its a bit further than my local which is a caltex but the caltex only offers 70% guaranteed

E60 might be safe, but power wise it can't make as much as full e85 though?

Hmmmm doesn't look like its pulling timing KC learned looks ok

do a rolling 3rd gear with a mate on highway ??

[86viper]

Yeh ill give it a go.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

From what I've read, below about 68 degrees F, ethanol doesn't want to vaporize. Then you add in the fact that ethanol has a massive cooling effect when it does vaporize (why it runs so nicely at high compression), you get even colder temps in the cylinder and you get too little fuel vapor to combust in a big boom. Gasoline doesn't want to vaporize as much either as it gets colder, but ethanol has a much sharper decrease in vaporization at lower temps. That's why a couple gallons of gasoline will make for easier starting in cold weather. There's more vapor to make boom.

This is not a problem with Vish's tune. His works great for the fuel he used. The Propel fuel probably has a lot lower percentage of gasoline so it doesn't match the cranking tables that worked for the fuel he used. This is also why, after running down the tank on 91 and switching to Propel, I had a single tank of easy starts. Then all of a sudden it seemed, on the second tank, starting sucked. There was a much lower percentage of gasoline.

I have done some reading on this issue. It isn't well documented online. However, I have seen some people recommending up to three times the fuel for e85 startup. It definitely depends on your car, though. What makes it even harder to deal with is that we don't have a full understanding of what each table does. There are six IPW ECT tables and four compensation tables. We don't know which one is used when and how since the Subaru and Toyota engineers aren't posting here. The RPM compensation tables aren't even populated on a stock ROM. Vish populated the RPM table and made some increases to the IPW ECT tables. What makes matters worse is that all but one of the ECT tables have multiple rows for Cranking State Number. Google is not my friend here, so I have no idea what those do. First crank? Second crank? Why the A-E? That's a lot of tables controlling cranking. If I had an exhaust sniffer, I could do a bit more figuring on all of this and maybe isolate what table does what when. On a cold start, the O2 sensor that computes lambda doesn't work. It needs to be up to temp, so it's no use.

I increased the RPM compensation tables and ECT tables quite a bit to get my cold start working on Propel fuel. However, I know it's definitely too rich because I can really smell the ethanol on startup. At least it starts strong. Unfortunately, when I applied the changes to Vish's newest 155b ROM, I got bad starts. The logic must use other aspects of the other tables he modified, so my numbers stopped working. Tonight, I'll flash a 155b ROM with more RPM compensation and ECT fueling. Hopefully that will work.

I also want to play with the A-E ECT tables and figure out which ones are being used when.

Will you marry me?

Thanks for taking the time to explain that

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Add around 2 gals CA 91 pump gas to 11 gals Propel e85 and it will start clean. I did this for roughly 2 months with no issues. I'm also in So Cal.

This sounds like the best plan until these cold start issues get worked out. I'll be mixing in a gallon 91 to my e-85 if I have trouble starting in my underground garage (it's never below 70F down there).

[86viper]

Mine seems to have worked itself out.

After a few tanks and some time & km on the tune its all good now. Pulling on bolt on cars with no tune easy now.

Very strong, tons more torque, using 3rd where i was using 2nd

Another happy OFT customer Now can't wait for my OFH to get here for even more goodness!

[steve99]

Originally Posted by 86viper

Mine seems to have worked itself out.

After a few tanks and some time & km on the tune its all good now. Pulling on bolt on cars with no tune easy now.

Very strong, tons more torque, using 3rd where i was using 2nd

Another happy OFT customer Now can't wait for my OFH to get here for even more goodness!

Exactly what I found , so much more torque down low.

don't believe the fuel consumption shown in the dash its out by about 25% as the injector scaling changes and the ecu does take this into account when calculating consumption.

[RelentlessGT]

@86viper and @steve99

Are either of you guys in Melb? I have a stock GT and always run 98 fuel. I am interested in the open flash tablet but wouldn't mind trying a tune first if possible. Maybe one of your could flash mine.