Supercharger Comparison: Innovate, Jackson, Kraftwerks, Vortech *Updated March 9 2014

[mrk1]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

My priority is sustained power. What can the car do if you're doing back to back freeway pulls? What can the car do if you're WOT for 15 minutes straight on the track? How high do the intake temps get on back to back pulls? How about exhaust gas temperature? When will the FMIC or heat exchanger get overwhelmed? Can the power be sustained?

Nice to see someone looking for this not a dyno queen or one pull wonder.

[shaunsweeney]

Agreed on sustained power. This is why if I go turbo I'm not placing it behind the radiator.

[Robftss]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

What can the car do if you're WOT for 15 minutes straight on the track?

Very good methodology for a roadcourse set-up.
Can the rest of the car deal with this situation?
Ie: tires, rotors, brake pads, brake lines, brake airflow, oil system temps, coolant system temps.

[choi0706]

what about tunes? who makes over the counter tunes for each kit?

[mit_peid]

First off, if there was ever going to be an award for best FT86club thread I feel like this thread should be in contention for "Thread of the Year 2014" or at least "Forced Induction Thread of the Year 2014". The contributions by the community have been very informative or at least entertaining. We all have our little biases whatever the motivation may be. I would like to summarize our S/C options based on what I have read in this thread, the specific "owners'" threads, reviews, and some of my own subjective opinions on the S/C kits based on what I have read/learned (I recently picked up and read an e-book titled “Supercharging! A Guide to Superchargers, Water Injection, and a lot More” by Greg Gordon.) I welcome comments and feedback on whether or not my synopsis is close to being correct. I’m currently debating myself between the Innovate kit and the Kraftwerks kit.

Option #1 – Vortech – One of the first kits to market for the FT86 platform, the complete CARB legal kit (~$5700 MSRP) is based on a Centrifugal blower (Vortech V-3 H67BC Supercharger), Air/Air Interooler, includes fuel system upgrades and ECU reflash device and calibration. It makes very good top-end power. Installation requires some modification/cutting in the engine bay area to fit all the necessary components. Seemed to have some issues early on... most of which might have been fixed (?). Minimum impact to MPG if driven normally.

Option #2 – Innovate – A popular kit based on a Sprintex (an Australian-based company) Twin-Screw blower. This same kit is branded as a Cusco kit in Japan. The complete CARB legal kit (~$4700) includes the Sprintex (S5-210) blower, ECUTEK ProECU Re-Flashing Cable & Tune File, Laminova liquid to air intercooler, high flow injectors, fuel pump, and reuses the OEM airbox and MAF sensor. It makes good mid-range power, but loses out to the Centrifugal options at the top-end. The non-intercooled version makes 25-30 fewer HP than the intercooled version. Installation sounds to be the easiest of all the kits available and should take less than a day – very good detailed instructions included and posted online. Minimum impact to MPG if driven normally. Good for a sleeper look since intercooler is subtle. Some front strut bars will not fit due to location of Sprintex blower on top of the FA20 engine. Sprintex is supposedly coming out with two kits above the current ones available (210 Plus and 335 Plus - so that make this base blower the 210).

Option #3 – Jackson Racing – A kit based on a Rotrex Centrifugal C30-94 blower similar in design with the Kraftwerks kit. The factory tuned system is CARB legal and retails for $4995. It is marketed to deliver +50%HP over stock and includes an Air-to-Air intercooler. It makes much better top-end power compared to the Sprintex twin-screw, but loses to it below ~4000rpm. Advertised install does not entail grinding, drilling, or tapping. Impeller whine which is shared by the KW kit but near silent operation. Complete system is driven by a single belt. Minimum impact to MPG if driven normally. Location of air-filter is inside the engine bay and therefore may not seem to be a "Cold-Air-Intake (CAI)", but in reality impact should be minimal since forced induction heats up the air significantly anyway. Large Air-to-Air IC may impact airflow to radiator and A/C condenser impacting cooling for other parts of the car.

Option #4 – Kraftwerks - A kit based on a Rotrex Centrifugal C30-94 blower similar in design with the Jackson Racing kit. The canned tuned version retails for $4695 and is currently not CARB legal as of Feb 16, 2014. (Update from KW is that CARB approval should come within 2-6 months (mid-Apr '14- Aug '14)). Upgradeable to larger C38 series of Rotrex blowers, but would like require engine work, new fuel injectors, fuel pump, etc. Performance similar to the base JR kit, but aesthetically looks better in my opinion. Some challenges with install due to location of intake being right behind bumper. It is more difficult to change air filter as a result, but draws air from a location that could be considered a CAI location but benefits should be inconsequential (see above). Some complaints about installation of S/C oil cooler and reservoir. Impeller whine which is shared by the JR kit. Not as silent as the JR kit but KW is offering a clogged idler upgrade for any kit owners with smooth idlers which makes the kit virtually silent. Kit is driven by two belts. Minimum impact to MPG if driven normally. Early adopters have expressed frustration with install of oil cooler and reservoir (official KW fix still under investigation). Large Air-to-Air IC has higher capacity and larger piping (2.5" compared to 2.0") compared to JR IC. IC may impact airflow to radiator and A/C condenser impacting cooling for other parts of the car (but the silver front mounted intercooler looks so good!).

Option #5 – HKS – Retails for $4800 without a tune. Made in Japan. Not CARB legal.

Option #6 – Toyota Racing Development (TRD). Too expensive to evaluate. Not street or CARB legal.

[gmsii]

the space shuttle is WOT for 8 mins before it reaches orbit
top speed at bonneville takes no more than 1 minute at WOT
at 15 mins WOT we are either embellishing or trying to build car to reach the moon...jus sayin..haha

[SirBrass]

Edit: Why is this not a stickie. THIS is the comparison thread that should always be up top.

It honestly looks like you could just flip a coin and go for either the Vortech or the Jackson Racing kit and be fine. Smaller pulley on the Vortech and you'd probably be right there with the JR.

Seems from reading all the way through the OP that between the two it comes down to: which you like better, ease of installation, kit cost, cost with the OTS tune (if you're not going with a tuner kit), and which blower you like better for whatever reason.

For me, cost is a huge factor and it looks like the JR kit really does it. But I can see the vortech being a perfectly acceptable option.

Honestly, though, the innovate should have been the best one of the lot. Problem? They went with a blower that was too small and thus it suffers from the same problem the TD04 had in the WRX: it gets power on early but it gives out up top. If they'd gone with a bigger twin screw blower that could handle more air more efficiently, then it could probably still be making power all the way to redline with a good intercooler.

[tendogy]

I don't know why it's not a sticky, this forum needs more stickies. For all the information that we have in the FI forum, it seems silly that we have just two stickies. blah.

Information is always growing, and it seems that we are at a good point to reflect on the supercharger options.

My initial analysis aimed to compare the power bands of the various superchargers with as little bias as possible. After doing the analysis, I read through every page of all the owners threads and vendor threads for each kit, and have continued to keep up with them. Here are my thoughts and opinions:

Vortech

These guys have great support on the forums, and have modified their kit several times to address growing pains and also to add more power. However, I am a bit put off by their strategy to have their cake and eat it too in regards to warranty and upgrading.

They have stated publicly that they intentionally left overhead in their kit design because users don't like to buy kits with maxed out blowers, and users like to buy kits with upgradeable pulleys. That's all well and good, but upgrading the pulley voids any warranty except their 1-year warranty, even if the pulley does not exceed the stated RPM limits of the blower.

Additionally, their paperwork does not allow for sub-freezing startups. Their reps on here say "you'll probably be fine" and several users have survived 1 or 2 sub-freezing winters, but who knows?

Many people don't care about that stuff, but I sure do. If you want your Vortech kit to have official company backing, then you have to keep the pulley stock and never start it in sub-freezing conditions. Otherwise, you are at their mercy if something breaks. I'm not a fan of that. On the whole, they feel like an OEM company that wants to play the aftermarket game too. That's probably not too far from the truth.

Also, their install looks great but the instructions look bonkers and Dezoris's video backs that up. Their website's instructions still contain all the errors that drove Dezoris crazy despite their claims to him that the instructions would be made more clear.

Lastly, the Vortech plot that I used for my analysis seems to be a bit of an outlier. All other plots I've found seem to fall off after 6500rpm like the Rotrex plots.

Innovate

I'll be honest, I'm not internet-impressed with the Innovate kit. Anyone who makes good numbers on the base kit is on E85, and I haven't seen a non-CARB intercooler plot on stock fueling. All signs point to a trend that Innovate kits require way more supporting mods to make decent power.

The Innovate makes better power down low, but so what? The centrifugal kits already spin the wheels (break traction) at low RPM in 1st and 2nd gear. Are we supposed to be impressed that the Innovate can spin-out even faster? If you want this low-end power to make a real-life difference then you have to buy new wheels and tires, and now you are the most expensive kit by a thousand dollars.

It has a reputation for being easy to install, but that was the base kit. Where are the intercooled kit instructions? I haven't been able to find them.

Kraftwerks

Like many of you, I was enamored by the clean under-the-hood presentation of the Kraftwerks kit. I also initially considered it a boon to add an additional pulley system. However, the more I have noticed that kit-induced headaches tend to come from overly-complicated design, the less I have liked the additional pulley system (and the $200 it adds over Jackson's kit).

Some people make a to-do about the upgradeability of the Kraftwerks kit, but (1) Kraftwerks (2) Jackson and (3) the compressor maps have all indicated that the bigger blower is not going to be viable for a non-built engine. I am not interested in building my engine, so I am not interested in the upgradeability.

Lastly, even though they are new to the game, their customer support has thrown up a few red flags in my mind. Anytime you have an owners thread where early adopters are defending the vendor from customer service problems, then I'm going to get skittish about throwing money in that direction. When is this kit getting CARB certified anyways? "next friday"?

Their installation difficulty seems pretty average.

Jackson

You can not talk about the Jackson kit without first mentioning how incredibly ugly it is under the hood. It is so ugly.

Evaluating their customer service is challenging because the Jacksons themselves don't interact too much on the forums so CSG feels like the customer service for Jackson. CSG has a pretty bulletproof reputation, but Jackson itself seems to have little customer service reputation here, good or bad. The blower has a 3-year warranty, seemingly without exception, but their link for more information leads to a blank web page.

I was impressed that their CARB approval came so quickly after the product's release. That says they started the process way ahead-of-time.

The kit may be ugly, but it is incredibly simple and to-the-point. The installation instructions look incredibly easy. I would guess this installation is the easiest intercooled supercharger installation of the bunch, but I have not seen Innovate's as I mentioned. The air filter is in the engine bay, but CSG has documented and demonstrated that IAT is no hotter than stock so we have no evidence that it loses power to a "true CAI" setup. From an ownership standpoint, I don't want to have to remove my bumper to service the air filter anyhow.

Currently, the biggest problem with the Jackson kit is its infancy. They have clearly done a bunch of testing and development, but I do not underestimate two dozen fools putting a kit on their car and breaking it in ways the designers never foresaw. So far I don't think I've heard of a single hiccup from this kit, but I don't think more than half-a-dozen cars are running it. CSG does seem to be beating the ever-loving-tar out of their kit though, so hopefully any weak spots will be discovered sooner rather than later.

[CK_Bladesmith]

Honestly, I bought my innovate intercooled kit because I wanted that sweet whine from the twin screws. For me it's not about getting the most power.....if that were the case id just wait for the new z06 to come out and call it a day. I'm looking for moderate power gains, which I now have and epic sound, which I definitely have now, thanks to the perrin CAI. For me, the car FEELS perfect now. Just my two cents worth

[Kodename47]

FYI the Sprintex (Innovate) intercooler install is an extra 15 mins worth of work from the base instructions (if you buy it pre-installed).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CK_Bladesmith

Honestly, I bought my innovate intercooled kit because I wanted that sweet whine from the twin screws. For me it's not about getting the most power.....if that were the case id just wait for the new z06 to come out and call it a day. I'm looking for moderate power gains, which I now have and epic sound, which I definitely have now, thanks to the perrin CAI. For me, the car FEELS perfect now. Just my two cents worth

I won't lie. Innovate with a smaller aftermarket pulley will scare the living crap out of a lot of domestics, if simply because of the supercharger whine.

But, the high pitched whine of a turbine spinning is scarrier...

[evo4g63]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I won't lie. Innovate with a smaller aftermarket pulley will scare the living crap out of a lot of domestics, if simply because of the supercharger whine.

But, the high pitched whine of a turbine spinning is scarrier...

This is true

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I won't lie. Innovate with a smaller aftermarket pulley will scare the living crap out of a lot of domestics, if simply because of the supercharger whine.

But, the high pitched whine of a turbine spinning is scarrier...

But will it still give out way too early? I thought the issue with the Innovate kit was that the blower on it was simply too small, and thus at 4k and up, it just couldn't keep up.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

But will it still give out way too early? I thought the issue with the Innovate kit was that the blower on it was simply too small, and thus at 4k and up, it just couldn't keep up.

Unless you have supporting mods, but if you do the same on the Centrifugal superchargers...

You have the right idea.

You want the power up top if you want to go fast, not at the bottom.