Those with 240 wbhp wish they had more, like closer to 300 wbhp?

[OrbitalEllipses]

I've heard this valve springs thing before - from someone that built their engine. @CSG Mike what's your reference point? You guys popped two blocks, but where are you coming from in saying the valve springs are scary, nomsayin'?

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I've heard this valve springs thing before - from someone that built their engine. @CSG Mike what's your reference point? You guys popped two blocks, but where are you coming from in saying the valve springs are scary, nomsayin'?

I find it hard to believe that the OEMs would make a valve spring that wouldn't work with an extra 600 RPM in this day and age. I have yet to hear of anyone breaking a valve spring or floating a valve on this motor.

[enwave]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Supercharger torque curve looks like a horsepower curve. Sure it may make decent peak power, but area under the curve is far more important in real life.

So wait, ESC torque curves look pretty damn flat after 2500rpm. My concern used to be the battery recharge. Educate me, what am I missing?

I'm as skeptical about supercharger torque curve as anyone, and I'm especially skeptical of the ESC, but I don't understand why the graphs and the commentary differs. I need to learn more!

(Also, I can dig the pick a gear argument. I like that idea too -- maybe I've just been thinking about my ideal boost the wrong way)
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[mrk1]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Rather than peak power, we'll be focusing on increasing the overall powerband

but but then how do I brag from my bar stool?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Sounds like a challenge. Wish I still had my car so I could accept it. Perhaps I will get to run some laps in James or David's car one day. I can't wait to hear why it couldn't sustain that power over the course of a single lap like most time attack guys do. The only thing linear in that dyno plot is the torque and boost plot, definitely not the horsepower curve.

Easy. Do 10 back to back pulls on the dyno, hood closed.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I've heard this valve springs thing before - from someone that built their engine. @CSG Mike what's your reference point? You guys popped two blocks, but where are you coming from in saying the valve springs are scary, nomsayin'?

We may have purchased a single OEM spring to test the rate... we were going to increase our redline until we had it in our hands.

Remember, we come from Honda backgrounds... we like high redlines.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Easy. Do 10 back to back pulls on the dyno, hood closed.

I don't know that that is the best way to replicate a single lap of a track no matter how good the dyno fans are. I am willing to bet a supercharger will lose power in that situation as well.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by enwave

So wait, ESC torque curves look pretty damn flat after 2500rpm. My concern used to be the battery recharge. Educate me, what am I missing?

I'm as skeptical about supercharger torque curve as anyone, and I'm especially skeptical of the ESC, but I don't understand why the graphs and the commentary differs. I need to learn more!

(Also, I can dig the pick a gear argument. I like that idea too -- maybe I've just been thinking about my ideal boost the wrong way)
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i'm not talking about the esc... talking about the centrifugals. the electric supercharger has crazy area under the curve... very good in that regard.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I don't know that that is the best way to replicate a single lap of a track no matter how good the dyno fans are. I am willing to bet a supercharger will lose power in that situation as well.

Challenge accepted

Remember, SC's don't have a turbo's hotside that's radiating heat everywhere, even with coatings and blankets.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Challenge accepted

Remember, SC's don't have a turbo's hotside that's radiating heat everywhere, even with coatings and blankets.

True, but compressing air still generates heat regardless of how it is accomplished hence the oil feed system on that kit.

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I've heard this valve springs thing before - from someone that built their engine. @CSG Mike what's your reference point? You guys popped two blocks, but where are you coming from in saying the valve springs are scary, nomsayin'?

Originally Posted by King Tut

I find it hard to believe that the OEMs would make a valve spring that wouldn't work with an extra 600 RPM in this day and age. I have yet to hear of anyone breaking a valve spring or floating a valve on this motor.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

We may have purchased a single OEM spring to test the rate... we were going to increase our redline until we had it in our hands.

Remember, we come from Honda backgrounds... we like high redlines.

Mike we would have given you the information about the springs as we have posted about the poor spring which are in the FA20. We found they have an install pressure of 35 lbs and at .005 lift it was 55 lbs. The rocker designs in similar to the 2AZ motor. However we have some advantages over the 2AZ uses a hydraulic lifter and the rocker arm has a slightly smaller pocket for the valve lash cap and lifter. The FA20 uses a solid lifter and the rocker that has a touch deeper slotting. We meet with Papadakis Racing last week and compared the 2AZ stock part, their upgraded 2AZ kit and the FA20 parts. At this time the best solution to control the rocker is to upgrade the springs as we have already done.

[enwave]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i'm not talking about the esc... talking about the centrifugals. the electric supercharger has crazy area under the curve... very good in that regard.

Got it. I mentally merged your comment with Victor's. Victor saying that ESC wasn't going to be linear and then you talking about supercharger curves confused me. Shoulda quoted Victor in my question.

My primary concern still remains charge. The graphs are pretty dreamy.

Thanks man!


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[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by King Tut

True, but compressing air still generates heat regardless of how it is accomplished hence the oil feed system on that kit.

Compressing air vs compressing (more) air and dealing with radiant heat... :p

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by LBC Por Siempre

By the way this is a little off topic but does anyone know how much a typical Super Charger takes away from the motor, robs - steals to take from the engine to make the extra power. After all Super Chargers are are parasitic And they require a bit of power from the engine to make power.
c

This is semi-debateable. There is a lot more involved than people think. I made 360WHP @ 11.5PSI @ 7400RPM on my car with a bad tune on E85 on a low reading dyno. I just did a baseline dyno of a stock car with only a drop in filter installed and he put down 137WHP. Look at other cars running a 100% stock exhaust setup at that PSI on a turbo and you will see similar results. On a centrifugal supercharger the loss isn't as bad as people think.