The FRS's Potential?

[trigger happy]

500hp frs daily driven on the street just sounds like overkill to me. 300-350 to the wheels in an frs would be more than enough fun for street use... 400 would be about the limit imo but thats subjective. Sounds like to me your more concerned with a lot of power going in a straight line, and for the money the 5.0 mustangs are a good bang for the buck and have a ton of potential. Only thing I dont care for about the mustangs is that you see them everywhere. Every parking lot, every intersection... Mustangs everywhere

[livingbreathingproof]

5.0s have nothing going for them other than straight-line power?
I haven't researched track times or anything...and I can't remember seeing any videos of one on YouTube that shows its cornering, braking, and etc. In fact, I haven't done too much extensive research on them at all. My main thing is that they're fast and not expensive.

However, straight-line power seems to be all I'm really after -- a highway monster and stoplight monster.
Personally, I couldn't afford to abuse the car at a track. But it'd be nice to know that it could do the track if I wanted to.

Mustangs ARE everywhere. But I can't say I've seen many 5.0s. That's just me, though. Most of the Mustangs I see around here are old or are V6s.

[Atropine]

If you want a fast car for cheap and you want to mod it...

Buy a Mustang GT and some Fuzzy Dice for it.

BOOM , you now have a 420 HP monster that you customized!

If your goal is great steering feel...stay with the FR-S or BRZ.

If you want reliable speed...can't really beat a Mustang GT for the price...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by livingbreathingproof

5.0s have nothing going for them other than straight-line power?
I haven't researched track times or anything...and I can't remember seeing any videos of one on YouTube that shows its cornering, braking, and etc. In fact, I haven't done too much extensive research on them at all. My main thing is that they're fast and not expensive.

The V6 Mustangs are faster than the FRS, let alone the GT's.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...or_comparison/

[DarkSunrise]

I always felt like this video did a fair/unbiased job at explaining the difference between a Mustang and 86. If it's simply about having the faster car, go with the Mustang. But if you value how the car drives, go with a Twin.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD3hgleEOXA"]Subaru BRZ vs Ford Mustang! - Head 2 Head Episode 7 - YouTube[/ame]

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I always felt like this video did a fair/unbiased job at explaining the difference between a Mustang and 86. If it's simply about having the faster car, go with the Mustang. But if you value how the car drives, go with a Twin.

Can't forget that they also tested the V6 with the options pack that includes tires and such

not exactly a stock for stock test

[livingbreathingproof]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I always felt like this video did a fair/unbiased job at explaining the difference between a Mustang and 86. If it's simply about having the faster car, go with the Mustang. But if you value how the car drives, go with a Twin.

Maybe I haven't owned enough cars to know, but I just don't see the FRS as many others do -- loved by many, hated by me.

I think the brakes are horrendous. I compare them to having chalk board erasers sliding against a chalkboard. However, the brakes in my BMW were phenomenal (same feel as a 2013 SRT8 Grand Cherokee). So, my expectations are probably too high.

I don't really get a joy out of driving the FRS. Instead, it's always like, "I need to go up this damn hill. Better hunt for gears." Or there is a car coming...
Realistically, I have enough time to pull out...so, I do. But, after I do, it's like, "Hurry the fuck up, FRS. Dude's gonna ram you."

I guess another factor is...I've never pushed a car to its limits. While every car may have different turning abilities and such, they all feel the same to me because on the road, I'm too scared to see if my car can take a certain turn at whatever speed. So, I just slow down and turn.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

Can't forget that they also tested the V6 with the options pack that includes tires and such

not exactly a stock for stock test

How is it not stock for stock if it rolls off the factory line that way? It's listed on the Ford website.

Is the V8 not stock because it's an upgrade over the V6? BRZ Premium vs Limited?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by livingbreathingproof

Maybe I haven't owned enough cars to know, but I just don't see the FRS as many others do -- loved by many, hated by me.

I think the brakes are horrendous. I compare them to having chalk board erasers sliding against a chalkboard. However, the brakes in my BMW were phenomenal (same feel as a 2013 SRT8 Grand Cherokee). So, my expectations are probably too high.

I don't really get a joy out of driving the FRS. Instead, it's always like, "I need to go up this damn hill. Better hunt for gears." Or there is a car coming...
Realistically, I have enough time to pull out...so, I do. But, after I do, it's like, "Hurry the fuck up, FRS. Dude's gonna ram you."

I guess another factor is...I've never pushed a car to its limits. While every car may have different turning abilities and such, they all feel the same to me because on the road, I'm too scared to see if my car can take a certain turn at whatever speed. So, I just slow down and turn.

Yeah I hear what you're saying and agree the FR-S/BRZ won't be for everyone.

If you asked me 10 years ago, I probably wouldn't have appreciated these cars the way I do now. Back then, I was about getting the most speed and practicality (for the money). I eventually bought my ideal do-it-all car, an STI hatch. 0-60 in 4.8 seconds, pulled 0.90 g in corners, AWD to get through snow, seated five with space for luggage, etc. And the car actually turned out to be pretty fast and practical. But it also felt a bit dull and disconnected all the time. The steering rack didn't have any feel, the car felt heavy and understeered in corners, there was turbo lag, and it seemed like for every input (throttle, brakes, steering), there was that split second of hesitation before the car over-responded.

I don't know if I'm getting old or what, but these days, I really enjoy small, lightweight cars that seem to respond instantly to inputs and provide lots of feedback. In my mind, those attributes are critical for a car to feel like an extension of you especially out on the track, and to feel like the car is "dancing" with you in corners.

If those qualities don't matter to you (and they might not), and especially if you don't think you'll ever push your car to its limits, then you are probably better off going with a car like the Mustang. Especially the 5.0 GT, which is an incredible performance bargain for the money.

[Sonolin]

Originally Posted by livingbreathingproof

Maybe I haven't owned enough cars to know, but I just don't see the FRS as many others do -- loved by many, hated by me.

I think the brakes are horrendous. I compare them to having chalk board erasers sliding against a chalkboard. However, the brakes in my BMW were phenomenal (same feel as a 2013 SRT8 Grand Cherokee). So, my expectations are probably too high.

I don't really get a joy out of driving the FRS. Instead, it's always like, "I need to go up this damn hill. Better hunt for gears." Or there is a car coming...
Realistically, I have enough time to pull out...so, I do. But, after I do, it's like, "Hurry the fuck up, FRS. Dude's gonna ram you."

I guess another factor is...I've never pushed a car to its limits. While every car may have different turning abilities and such, they all feel the same to me because on the road, I'm too scared to see if my car can take a certain turn at whatever speed. So, I just slow down and turn.

Before you sell your FRS - take it to the track. It will teach you a lot and show you this car is far from slow.

Anyway, if you want a reliable fast car for the cheapest $$$, a Mustang is hard to beat (esp. with that lovely 5.0 ). I struggle over this question myself sometimes, but I love my FRS - I couldn't ever imagine selling it and while F/I may make the car more unreliable, I think a 35k FRS with turbo/SC would be a funner car than a stock ~30k mustang GT (talking new vs. new).

Now all things equal, the mustang would eat the FRS (F/I or not) in the straight line and also be *much* more reliable for less $$$. Something goes wrong with your 35k FRS - you get a rebuild engine, new trans, increase the power, and now you have a 45k FRS that's just a bit faster than the 35k one and something that's bound to have issues come up.

I think it more comes down to - do you want a fast modified car that has potential issues, or do you want a fast stock car that will be reliable for 100k+ miles?

Also keep in mind, a Mustang Gt will never handle like an FRS. Either will a Corvette. *Yes* these will produce better #'s on the skidpad/slalom/road course but the light weight nature & flickability of the FRS will always feel different than the other 2 heavier American cars.

EDIT: something I myself am considering is keeping my car relatively stock (or with a *mild* 250-300whp F/I build) and then saving up for a few years for a faster car. I think this car would be *perfect* with about 300whp and hope reliability would at least be managable but who knows at this point.

[Sonolin]

Also, keep in mind, instead of being in the hole with a 45k FRS, you could instead be in the hole with a 45k Mustang GT which would be *much* faster and respond to mods a lot better.

Honestly if you're just looking for *straight line speed* the American cars can't be beaten for the $$$.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you're just looking for the fastest for the $$$ and don't mind the looks/interior LS1 f-bodies are hard to beat... I've been thinking of grabbing one of these, nitrous + header + cam = 450+whp and 11's at track with a good driver & rubber. All that doable for <10k if you're smart and get good deals...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlh8-LxeTJ8"]big wheelii on bumper LS1 cam and nitrous only !!! RIP SPEED racing team - YouTube[/ame]

[livingbreathingproof]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Also, keep in mind, instead of being in the hole with a 45k FRS, you could instead be in the hole with a 45k Mustang GT which would be *much* faster and respond to mods a lot better.

Honestly if you're just looking for *straight line speed* the American cars can't be beaten for the $$$.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you're just looking for the fastest for the $$$ and don't mind a POS (non-DD IMO) LS1 f-bodies are hard to beat... I've been thinking of grabbing one of these, nitrous + header + cam = 450+whp and 11's at track with a good driver & rubber. All that doable for <10k if you're smart and get good deals...

I'm glad you linked that video because, for whatever reason, it didn't click in my head the first time that the goal for most people is to mod their car for straight-line power.
I spent some time on LS1tech and modding a cheap car seems to be what is best for us (lower/middle-class) people. Not to say all LS1 owners are lower/middle class...just a vague generalization.
Unless I become rich or whatever and can afford a Switzer GTR, I think track performance is last on my list for a car.
So long as the car isn't an accident waiting to happen when I go around a turn semi-aggressively, that's good enough for me.


The only downside is...Mustangs feel heavy as tits to me. Although a 5.0 weighs just as much as a GTO (if my memory serves), it does feel bulky and heavy. That's probably my only dislike about it.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

How is it not stock for stock if it rolls off the factory line that way? It's listed on the Ford website.

Is the V8 not stock because it's an upgrade over the V6? BRZ Premium vs Limited?

I get what you mean but the twins are a base model so I don't see it being too fair comparing a car with performance upgrades to one that doesnt have any

would you consider a C6 to be the same car as a ZR1? I mean the ZR1 is from factory but has a shit load of performance options. Its listed on the website but is it really a stock car or is it a car thats been upgraded a shit ton from factory.

Hell I'm sure Mustang guys themselves would say that their car is stock except for the blah blah package. It could just be me consider stock to be a base model and factory upgrades to be mods.

Just a matter of opinion but either way thats besides the point. I don't care enough to debate this

[livingbreathingproof]

In all reality, I think I'd rather have a WS6 and mod it up. But, I can't get over how old the interior looks.