Brian Crower Stage 1 Cams

[mid_life_crisis]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

The stock springs really suck if you plan to run high RPMs. They have an install pressure of 33LBS and at .05 lift they are 55LBS. The rocker arm design is similar to the TC. Which worried us as the TC is known to throw rockers and wiping out the head. So we contacted Supertech and obtained a set of their springs. Their upgraded springs have and install of 75LBS and 105 @.50

So what are you thinking about doing regards the rocker arms? You can't swap in stiffer springs and an aggressive cam on a set of rocker arms that are suspect to begin with and expect the rockers to hold up.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

To clear up the above bold print, We pulled our motor out of the car to check clearances and determine what if any internal parts we want to replace in the near future. Tolerances are tight and he did not like the stock valve springs. With the heads off we took the time to port and polish them along with upgrading the springs. The heads were never replaced. During the reassemble process we installed the cams.

The cams have a different profile as it pertains to the valves. The DI pump is run off the intake cam on the left bank (See the photo of the cams, right cam is the intake on the left bank). The cam has a separate triangular lobe for running the DI pump (top most poration of the cam). They did not change the DI lobes.

When testing new part for a motor it only makes sense to us a tuner that is experienced with this platform. If we used a different tuner (less knowledgeable) one would say that we could have found more power or done something different. The fact is we spoke with Bill and he was given the car to create the maps. All of the above maps where built by Bill, as he was our tuner from day one. So the number you see are all his work. The only thing not apples to apples is the head porting.

Did you record the stock cfm the heads flow?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Calum

I just had a chance to look at these numbers, my god those are tiny! Unless Crower is measuring these at a very high starting lift point, I can't believe We're getting 200 hp from these cams.

Those figures are wonky.

They look like full duration (big numbers) and duration @ .050".

I don't think they are .26x" max lift.

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by mid_life_crisis

So what are you thinking about doing regards the rocker arms? You can't swap in stiffer springs and an aggressive cam on a set of rocker arms that are suspect to begin with and expect the rockers to hold up.

The rocker arm sits on top of the valve and a lifter (more like a pin with a hole). The cam then presses down ontop of the rocker to hold it in place. At this time, we are working on a long term plan to solve the problem. But the short term plan is to incress the spring to help with the control the rocker arm and keep the valve from floating.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Those figures are wonky.

They look like full duration (big numbers) and duration @ .050".

I don't think they are .26x" max lift.

That seems much more reasonable.

[xwd]

Originally Posted by fooddude

I wonder if decent NA cams would make more or less horsepower than headers. All these dyno sheets of aftermarket headers these days are honestly very impressive (compared to the mid 90s); almost to a point of being unbelievable. Just curious if cams + tuning would be up to par or make even more than 20hp, or maybe even 30hp or more.

If the cams can only make an extra 10'ish hp on NA, I'm not sure if it would be even worth it, especially with all the install costs/hassles and all the required replacements parts during install (maybe new intake/tb gaskets, fuel lines, bushings, etc, if maybe needing to remove the lines and such to get at the top of the heads.)

The cams install from the sides, so the easiest way to install them is to remove the motor. Especially if you are doing other stuff at the same time like valve springs, it would be impossible to do that stuff with the motor in the car. You don't have to remove anything on top of the motor. Headers would be a cakewalk compared to a cam install...

[motokev]

Regrinds or virgin cores?

[fooddude]

Originally Posted by dwx

The cams install from the sides, so the easiest way to install them is to remove the motor. Especially if you are doing other stuff at the same time like valve springs, it would be impossible to do that stuff with the motor in the car. You don't have to remove anything on top of the motor. Headers would be a cakewalk compared to a cam install...

Ah... Duh me, I almost forgot it was a boxer lol.

[mad_sb]

I don't think cams will do much (up top anyway) NA without doing a proper header first. I think headers are, for good reason, becoming the default first performance mod.

Originally Posted by fooddude

I wonder if decent NA cams would make more or less horsepower than headers. All these dyno sheets of aftermarket headers these days are honestly very impressive (compared to the mid 90s); almost to a point of being unbelievable. Just curious if cams + tuning would be up to par or make even more than 20hp, or maybe even 30hp or more.

If the cams can only make an extra 10'ish hp on NA, I'm not sure if it would be even worth it, especially with all the install costs/hassles and all the required replacements parts during install (maybe new intake/tb gaskets, fuel lines, bushings, etc, if maybe needing to remove the lines and such to get at the top of the heads.)

[brn12345]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

The rocker arm sits on top of the valve and a lifter (more like a pin with a hole). The cam then presses down ontop of the rocker to hold it in place. At this time, we are working on a long term plan to solve the problem. But the short term plan is to incress the spring to help with the control the rocker arm and keep the valve from floating.

I have not seen the FA20 rocker/lifter setup up close, but if it shares similar components to Toyotas current setup on nearly all engines which I think it does, then one can look at Lexus ISF part number 13801-38010 for the rocker and 13957-38010 for the lifter. The lifter on the ISF is solid and the rocker has the right design to contain the lash caps

[soros151]

watching

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by brn12345

I have not seen the FA20 rocker/lifter setup up close, but if it shares similar components to Toyotas current setup on nearly all engines which I think it does, then one can look at Lexus ISF part number 13801-38010 for the rocker and 13957-38010 for the lifter. The lifter on the ISF is solid and the rocker has the right design to contain the lash caps

That design is similar and we will add that information to the research list. We are looking for a long term fix for the racers

[brn12345]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

That design is similar and we will add that information to the research list. We are looking for a long term fix for the racers

You might want to look at solid lifters from the GM Ecotec race parts:

http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/...catName=JP0711

and also:

http://www.jesel.com/valvetrain/index.php/followers

and also:

http://www.cimotorsports.net/motor-s...lt-ecotec.html

Not sure if these will just drop in, but a recent build of an 2AR-FE used those lifters. Cant find the link to the build, though I think its on MotoIQ's site

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by brn12345

You might want to look at solid lifters from the GM Ecotec race parts:

http://www.jbodyperformance.com/new/...catName=JP0711

and also:

http://www.jesel.com/valvetrain/index.php/followers

and also:

http://www.cimotorsports.net/motor-s...lt-ecotec.html

Not sure if these will just drop in, but a recent build of an 2AR-FE used those lifters. Cant find the link to the build, though I think its on MotoIQ's site

Thank you for the information we will look into the information you provided and post updates. We are looking to help make the FA20 as strong as possible and really enjoy everyones help and feedback. We are looking forward to seeing the true potential of this motor.