Brian Crower Stage 1 Cams

[lbroskee]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

YA but just that fact of going in the motor lol!

and that's y this is all something i will b paying to have done. especially if those FI cams are worth the money (I'm sure they will be)

[Calum]

Originally Posted by wparsons

In for N/A numbers!

*puts on flame suit*

I'm guessing it'll be at least late summer/early fall before we see any reliable numbers. As it is, these numbers aren't at all reliable. For the numbers posted in this thread; the heads were swapped (we don't know if there was a casting issue with originals), the heads were ported, the tuner had a ton more experience with this platform, and the cams were added. For all we know these cams may loose power over stock and the other changes could be enough to offset.

I'm elated to see cams are coming to the market, and DA seems to be doing what they can to give us all information possible. I just think we need to keep things in perspective. At this point all we know is that the stock DI cam profile was maintained, and the cams were made by Brian Crower.

[wparsons]

I'm in no rush, I don't plan on cracking open my engine until the warranty is up (which at my current pace is another ~1.5 years).

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by Calum

*puts on flame suit*

I'm guessing it'll be at least late summer/early fall before we see any reliable numbers. As it is, these numbers aren't at all reliable. For the numbers posted in this thread; the heads were swapped (we don't know if there was a casting issue with originals), the heads were ported, the tuner had a ton more experience with this platform, and the cams were added. For all we know these cams may loose power over stock and the other changes could be enough to offset.

I'm elated to see cams are coming to the market, and DA seems to be doing what they can to give us all information possible. I just think we need to keep things in perspective. At this point all we know is that the stock DI cam profile was maintained, and the cams were made by Brian Crower.

To clear up the above bold print, We pulled our motor out of the car to check clearances and determine what if any internal parts we want to replace in the near future. Tolerances are tight and he did not like the stock valve springs. With the heads off we took the time to port and polish them along with upgrading the springs. The heads were never replaced. During the reassemble process we installed the cams.

The cams have a different profile as it pertains to the valves. The DI pump is run off the intake cam on the left bank (See the photo of the cams, right cam is the intake on the left bank). The cam has a separate triangular lobe for running the DI pump (top most poration of the cam). They did not change the DI lobes.

When testing new part for a motor it only makes sense to us a tuner that is experienced with this platform. If we used a different tuner (less knowledgeable) one would say that we could have found more power or done something different. The fact is we spoke with Bill and he was given the car to create the maps. All of the above maps where built by Bill, as he was our tuner from day one. So the number you see are all his work. The only thing not apples to apples is the head porting.

[woode]

Oh, definitely interested. Good to see options starting to appear finally..

[Calum]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

To clear up the above bold print, We pulled our motor out of the car to check clearances and determine what if any internal parts we want to replace in the near future. Tolerances are tight and he did not like the stock valve springs. With the heads off we took the time to port and polish them along with upgrading the springs. The heads were never replaced. During the reassemble process we installed the cams.

The cams have a different profile as it pertains to the valves. The DI pump is run off the intake cam on the left bank (See the photo of the cams, right cam is the intake on the left bank). The cam has a separate triangular lobe for running the DI pump (top most poration of the cam). They did not change the DI lobes.

When testing new part for a motor it only makes sense to us a tuner that is experienced with this platform. If we used a different tuner (less knowledgeable) one would say that we could have found more power or done something different. The fact is we spoke with Bill and he was given the car to create the maps. All of the above maps where built by Bill, as he was our tuner from day one. So the number you see are all his work. The only thing not apples to apples is the head porting.

Thanks for clearing up the head issues.

I wasn't trying to say you went with a different tuner, but that Bill had gained experience with this platform. He is an awesome tuner, and made some huge improvements in my car.

Full respect to you and him, it's just that the posted results aren't conclusive. Someone can't drop these in, get a tune, and expect the same results.

Are you able to give info on the stock valve springs and the aftermarket valve springs you used.

[DoctorNick]

Can't wait to hear this cam!

[Calum]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

The info we have for the stock cams is only the lift and deration as tested by BC.

Deration@.05: Intake 206
Exhaust 200
Lift@.05: Intake 268
Exhaust 265

I just had a chance to look at these numbers, my god those are tiny! Unless Crower is measuring these at a very high starting lift point, I can't believe We're getting 200 hp from these cams.

[JerryMichaels7]

Higher compression and cams...mmmm

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by Calum

Are you able to give info on the stock valve springs and the aftermarket valve springs you used.

The stock springs really suck if you plan to run high RPMs. They have an install pressure of 33LBS and at .05 lift they are 55LBS. The rocker arm design is similar to the TC. Which worried us as the TC is known to throw rockers and wiping out the head. So we contacted Supertech and obtained a set of their springs. Their upgraded springs have and install of 75LBS and 105 @.50

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by Calum

I just had a chance to look at these numbers, my god those are tiny! Unless Crower is measuring these at a very high starting lift point, I can't believe We're getting 200 hp from these cams.

Those values are for the stock cams. The BC cams are better

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by Calum

I just had a chance to look at these numbers, my god those are tiny! Unless Crower is measuring these at a very high starting lift point, I can't believe We're getting 200 hp from these cams.

A couple things to keep in mind, besides the obvious fact this engine has direct injection. I don't know what the valve angle is, but steeper valve angle = better possibilities for head flow. Basically, there's a tradeoff between charge motion and flow, but the tradeoff line "moves outward" with a steeper valve angle. Maybe the valve angle is advantageous (or maybe not).

There's more to a cam than a duration--the duration is only the length of the event. The timing is critical. Remember, with dual AVCS we can retard intake closing timing for higher volumetric efficiency, and adjust the exhaust valve timing for either earlier blowdown (advance cam) or later evacuation of gases (retard cam).

In most cases for an n/a engine the number one determining factor of high speed performance for a cam is closing timing of the intake valve. It sets the trapped mass (effective volume), the pressure drop across the intake valve (filling capability and dynamic effect), filling time, and effective compression.

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

The stock springs really suck if you plan to run high RPMs. They have an install pressure of 33LBS and at .05 lift they are 55LBS. The rocker arm design is similar to the TC. Which worried us as the TC is known to throw rockers and wiping out the head. So we contacted Supertech and obtained a set of their springs. Their upgraded springs have and install of 75LBS and 105 @.50

I'm sure you know this, but for everyone else: stiffer valve springs = more wasted engine output on friction. It's certainly an appropriate move to get stiffer springs, and I'm not saying you don't need stiffer ones in this case. But the stock ones are designed that way for a reason and you have to be careful about going overboard.

Also, for everyone else: brake torque (and thus power) = indicated torque - pumping - friction . Friction is basically a catch-all for anything that isn't related to combustion or gas exchange.

Friction screws you over in everything. It kills fuel economy, it kills torque and power.

[fooddude]

I wonder if decent NA cams would make more or less horsepower than headers. All these dyno sheets of aftermarket headers these days are honestly very impressive (compared to the mid 90s); almost to a point of being unbelievable. Just curious if cams + tuning would be up to par or make even more than 20hp, or maybe even 30hp or more.

If the cams can only make an extra 10'ish hp on NA, I'm not sure if it would be even worth it, especially with all the install costs/hassles and all the required replacements parts during install (maybe new intake/tb gaskets, fuel lines, bushings, etc, if maybe needing to remove the lines and such to get at the top of the heads.)

[wparsons]

Depends on where you want the power. Adding 40hp is doable if you're willing to shift the powerband up higher and rev to 9k rpm (with supporting mods, valve springs, etc), but for just dropping in cams I don't know that you're going to see huge gains.