FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[Mike]

Originally Posted by schlomo

You got the oil to 280 F on a test drive? I highly doubt that. But if so, I think you're the first.

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

I agree with your assessment on this as well. There's no way to overheat the oil by regular driving on the Z. As an owner myself, not tracking the car, I need to drive on the highway for at least half hour with the rpm consistently at ~3k just to get the oil temp to 245 F. That would still be considered to be in "OK" temp, not ideal, but OK at least. On top of that, even if I downshift to 5th or even the 4th to rev it up for fun, the oil temp doesn't really jump above 250 F.

Don't get me wrong, I would still prefer to have lower operating temp if possible (200~220). However, ideally, if one wishes to track the car, an oil cooler is must for almost every car I think.

You don't need to push the car; you just need to keep the RPM high and you'll roast the oil within minutes.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by Mike

You don't need to push the car; you just need to keep the RPM high and you'll roast the oil within minutes.

That's just silly. If you do that, you WILL cook the oil in every car...duh

[UAM]

This thread is interesting to say the last. Cant really compare FR-S to the 370z. The z is hell of a car with power straight from factory. Yes it doesnt have backseats but does have valuable space in the hatch for space. The 370z looks better to me especially in that price range. I love my 370z. The FR-S going to be a great track car. Hopefully our shop car will see some light of that.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

That's just silly. If you do that, you WILL cook the oil in every car...duh

Like what? Miata? Stu? Evo? Carrera? S2000? Ferrari?

I'm not talking redline; I'm talking something like coasting at 5000 RPM.

[Vasilis]

Just dropping in to say that brake fading + other problems is a known issue for the 370Z on the track.

Not a problem on the road !

Also on the S2000 the car rear end wanders during hard braking especially on the AP1 models and are not the safest car to drive at higher speeds. This was improved on AP2.

That is my 2 cents of knowledge on these 2 cars, even If I got one of these as a gift I'd sell them and get something else (my opinion!)

[schlomo]

I don't want to sound like a fanboy here (I'm buying a BRZ after all) but many people here seriously exaggerate the problems with the Z on the track based on what they hear from magazines and haven't actually seen themselves. I have 2 friends that track and DD theirs and have seen first hand that they truly are a great platform.

Its ridiculous that Nissan didn't include an oil cooler, but with a $450 oil cooler kit the oil will stay in a perfect temp range lap after lap after lap. This is proven. The brake issues can be remedied with better pads and fluid. Air scoops directing air at the rotors can help too.

Tons of people are tracking their Zs hard and having a blast doing it. Again, its too bad owners had to pay extra to get their Zs race ready but I can't think of many cars under $33k that are truly race ready from the factory. There is no issue with oil overheating or brake fade in DD on stock 370Zs.

I can almost guarantee that the FR-S and BRZ will need some prep before they can handle successive hot laps. I'm prepared for that and honestly expect it. Call me crazy, but I'm actually looking forward to finding the flaws and figuring out ways to deal with them. Its all part of the fun!

[spin9k]

Originally Posted by schlomo

Call me crazy, but I'm actually looking forward to finding the flaws and figuring out ways to deal with them. Its all part of the fun!

lol That's what girls usually say about their fiancees

BTW RX-8s are one of those under $33K track ready cars. Bone stock, just run it hard and ride it into the sunset!

[schlomo]

Originally Posted by spin9k

lol That's what girls usually say about their fiancees

[UAM]

Originally Posted by schlomo

I don't want to sound like a fanboy here (I'm buying a BRZ after all) but many people here seriously exaggerate the problems with the Z on the track based on what they hear from magazines and haven't actually seen themselves. I have 2 friends that track and DD theirs and have seen first hand that they truly are a great platform.

Its ridiculous that Nissan didn't include an oil cooler, but with a $450 oil cooler kit the oil will stay in a perfect temp range lap after lap after lap. This is proven. The brake issues can be remedied with better pads and fluid. Air scoops directing air at the rotors can help too.

Tons of people are tracking their Zs hard and having a blast doing it. Again, its too bad owners had to pay extra to get their Zs race ready but I can't think of many cars under $33k that are truly race ready from the factory. There is no issue with oil overheating or brake fade in DD on stock 370Zs.

I can almost guarantee that the FR-S and BRZ will need some prep before they can handle successive hot laps. I'm prepared for that and honestly expect it. Call me crazy, but I'm actually looking forward to finding the flaws and figuring out ways to deal with them. Its all part of the fun!

Your statement is very true. I have a dual 25 row oil cooler on mine so its runs a little cooler usually below 200. I also have supercharger on the car which causes the temps to rise a bit after boosting. Never get tired of boosting. 5500whp tons of fun.

[schlomo]

Originally Posted by UAM

5500whp tons of fun.

Careful. 5500 whp might cause you go backward/forward in time.

I keed

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Also on the S2000 the car rear end wanders during hard braking especially on the AP1 models and are not the safest car to drive at higher speeds.

This problem is *easily* mitigated by running MINIMAL rear toe. Perversely, the factory and many S2k owners think that running MORE rear toe helps. WRONG! Excessive rear toe (more than ~0.4 to 0.5 degrees total) on the AP1 makes it an evil-handling bitch that eats tires at an incredible rate. Setting toe to ~0.2 degrees total and the car handles brilliantly.

When I first tracked mine (Watkins Glen), I ran the max spec rear toe of 0.64deg total due to running front tires nearly as wide as rears, and because of all the warnings about it's tail-happy antics. Sure enough, I experienced weird, nonlinear handling that spooked me a little, despite years of experience in a much higher power/weight, sometimes tail-happy but always more linearly-handling 240Z.

Then I shared the car with a friend at Mosport. Day 2 the car became more and more oversteery, to the point that it was well nigh undriveable. Both of us experienced drivers in much higher power/weight rwd cars, both of us totally freaked by the cars spooky/evil handling.
Turns out the rears had already pretty much heat-cycled out!

Next event, I wanted to knock the toe down to min specs to get reasonable life out of my new rear tires, as I couldn't live with that kinda wear rate and I couldn't deal with the handling degradation at end of rear tire life.

I asked for the minimum AP1 spec: 0.32deg total rear toe or 0.16deg per side. Shop gave me 0.15deg TOTAL instead. I was quite worried at the next event that the car would snap oversteer all over the place. Instead, the car behaved MUCH better and more linearly. EXCELLENT!

Benefits of minimal rear toe: GREATLY increased tire life, MUCH more linear handling characteristics, LESS twitchy, but MORE responsive at turn-in, even improved mileage!

Excessive rear toe: SUCKS, for EVERYthing.

FFWD a couple of years, and at Mont Tremblant in the wet, the car was again almost undriveable! WTF! On the drive home through Montreal, heavy downpour, I had to slow to a crawl while cars around me were having no problems going 5-10mph faster.

Took it to the shop, lo and behold the alignment had shifted, giving 1.05deg total rear toe. I made sure they tightened the bolts adequately when they reset it...

This was improved on AP2.

Yeah, for the AP2 they eliminated almost all of the rear toe-change-with-bump that the AP1 suffered from.

Hard to believe how often the same exact mistake has been repeated with Japanese sports cars: FC RX-7, NSX, 2nd gen MR2, and then the AP1. The idea being that increasing rear toe-in with bump would make these cars *more forgiving*, as when you turned in and got some body roll, the outside rear would toe in and give understeer (or reduce oversteer). DUMB IDEA that NEVER ONCE worked as intended!
Very nonlinear handling, particularly over bumps. And if you make the rookie mistake of LIFTING off the gas when the back end starts to get loose, God help you! Because then in addition to unloading the rears, which gives more oversteer, you outside rear now toes relatively OUTward as the back end lifts, giving a huge additional dose of oversteer! Instant spin.

Anyway, the AP1 is a sweetheart with ~0.2 degrees total rear toe. A little weird, but not "out to kill you" weird. With excessive rear toe, it's really a terrible car to drive.

[SUB-FT86]

I love the engine in the 370Z. I would never have to high rev that engine because it feels fast as fuck under 5k rpms unlike every single 4 banger that's N/A. And I love the look of the 370Z Sport with rear lip spoiler. The sport wheels look gorgeous to me.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I love the engine in the 370Z. I would never have to high rev that engine because it feels fast as fuck under 5k rpms unlike every single 4 banger that's N/A. And I love the look of the 370Z Sport with rear lip spoiler. The sport wheels look gorgeous to me.

I'm sorry, I have the exact opposite opinion of the engine in the 370Z. It's about as refined as an inbred hooker living out of a double-wide eating mayonnaise sandwiches. You don't rev the engine over 5k because it sounds like a school bus motor and overpowers the cabin with drone over 3500rpm. Impossible to hold a conversation or hear the stereo. Worst-sounding engine I've ever experienced. I can't believe they found that to be an acceptable engine choice for a sports car. My 240Z may only have made 150hp but it sounded like pure sex, and I'll take that over 330hp any day! You need the SynchroRev feature because the motor hates to rev; a flywheel might fix that but still unacceptable for a sports car. Total deal-breaker for me, which sucks because I too love the way they look and everything else about the car was pretty nice.

I drove one yesterday just to make sure I was making the right choice with a BRZ, and I'm glad I did, because now I have no regrets!

[subatoy]

I owned a 370z and I have to say it's an amazing car but all the power gets wasted by the crappy transmission, worst transmission EVER.
noisy, it grinds, makes the car feel slow and the clutch HATES driving slowly.
Handling wise it's simply amazing, thar car comes with rails.
There is nothing this BRZ can do at the track to get EVEN CLOSE to the 370z.
This is a very dumb comparison because the engine on the 370z has the balls this subatoy doesn't have.