FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[ZDan]

The main car that the FR-S copies is the S13 240SX.
2700 lb.
~54/46 static weight distribution
FR rwd/irs
2+2 coupe
modest N/A 4cyl power versus higher-dollar/higher-end sports cars of its era.

240SX had only just over 50% of the 300ZXTT's power, FR-S has 60% of the 370Z's power, so some improvement there
We also get a torsen lsd (only a very few HICAS S13's came with LSD, and it was viscous)

But the FR-S mechanically is a near verbatim copy of the S13, which is FANTASTIC as far as I'm concerned. And it looks way cooler

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by ZDan

The main car that the FR-S copies is the S13 240SX.
2700 lb.
~54/46 static weight distribution
FR rwd/irs
2+2 coupe
modest N/A 4cyl power versus higher-dollar/higher-end sports cars of its era.

240SX had only just over 50% of the 300ZXTT's power, FR-S has 60% of the 370Z's power, so some improvement there
We also get a torsen lsd (only a very few HICAS S13's came with LSD, and it was viscous)

But the FR-S mechanically is a near verbatim copy of the S13, which is FANTASTIC as far as I'm concerned. And it looks way cooler

I understand spec wise the frs is very alike to a couple cars (Integra Type R comes to mind) but looks I can't see anything in it that reminds me of another car

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by crazyyankeefan

How agile and responsive a car is related to power-to-weight ratio significantly.

When I think of agility and responsiveness, things like curb weight, COG (front/back, side/side, and height), yaw-moment, chassis, wheelbase, track, suspension, tires, brakes, steering, and throttle response come to mind.

Throttle response is not closely related to power (or power/weight), though they sometimes go hand in hand.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

I understand spec wise the frs is very alike to a couple cars (Integra Type R comes to mind) but looks I can't see anything in it that reminds me of another car

It's unfortunate how quickly Honda has fallen into the other direction and stopped make the Integra. The Type R (or Type S in the US) can hit 60 in 6.2. Pretty fast for a FWD with that power.

[Jordo!]

Yes. It's a copy.

It's copying the general model of a lightweight, inexpensive, sporty car

The Corvette is a copy too -- based on the general model of an exotic sports car.

And, even more shocking -- rumor has it the Firebird was nearly identical to the Camaro

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Yes. It's a copy.

It's copying the general model of a lightweight, inexpensive, sporty car

The Corvette is a copy too -- based on the general model of an exotic sports car.

And, even more shocking -- rumor has it the Firebird was nearly identical to the Camaro

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Mike

Stop magazine racing and get some real seat time in the car

How much seat time do you have in a 370z/g37? I've logged quite a few, and can absolutely guarantee that the brakes are not an issue. Good fluid and pads are all you need unless you're building more than just a weekend warrior.

If anything, the S2000 has some serious brake problems, but none of the magazine harp about that.

You shouldn't be using ABS on track anyways; ABS is generally a crutch unless you're trail braking into a really badly paved turn.



Do you just regurgitate what you read or have you actually attended any sort of driving school?

I got the info on the 370z from other people in the 370z community. I've driven several of them, though none on a track. I was able to overheat the engine during a test drive. With the salesman in the car. And the brake issue seems to be a pretty big concern for other owners, since you can read the threads in 370z forums about current owners warning new owners that they might not want to track it without changing several things.

And yeah I have done some performance driving....quite a bit of autocrossing before I joined the Army and had to stop due to the ridiculous training schedules and moving all over the country. My 30 day leave after the deployment is being used to attend one of Skip Barber's 3 day courses, and I've already taken my personal car around the 'ring, since I live in Germany...at which point I found that my GTI displayed exactly the traits that I'd read about.

*shrug* I mean, I'm getting my info from people who actually own the car. I research my purchases.....no other performance car on the market has anywhere near the amount of complaints, warnings, etc from it's own community when compared to the 370z. Even the import mags acknowledge the issues and they usually have nothing but good things to say about cars from the land of the rising sun.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Never any issues with mine at the track (NHMS, WGI, Mosport, Mont Tremblant, Lime Rock). I've gotten by with OEM AP1 pads in a pinch (not ideal). For a while I used CarboTech XP8s, but eventually found that I had zero issues with lower-temp Hawk HP+. Fresh off-the-shelf DOT4 has always worked well for me too.
Totally bone stock '01.

Of course different drivers can place very different demands on the brakes, even while turning similar lap times, so that's a huge variable right there...

I must be doing something wrong That's a glazed XP12. These are all in the same day :p

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

370z is an awesome car

but it has no back seats

the FT86 truly fills a gap in the automotive world

+1 ^. I would have bought a 370z a while ago, if back seats would have been an option, and no I'm not interested in G series coupe, not the same look.

I think have the back seats, as impractical as they may be is going to be a selling point for the FT86.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Mike

I must be doing something wrong That's a glazed XP12. These are all in the same day :p

If you're at stockish S2000 hp and cooking XP12s and cracking new rotors in one day, you are either dragging the brakes with your foot on the pedal, calipers are stuck and dragging, or you're braking entirely too much!

Any chance you had older rotors that cracked early in the day, and that caused your pad issues?

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Mike

I must be doing something wrong That's a glazed XP12. These are all in the same day :p

Damn man, that's unusual. Several of my friends were tracking S2000s back in the day and they did not have anything like that....

You're either wayyyyy faster than them or something's mechanically wrong...

What kind of set up do you have for the brakes, and where were you racing? You could get cracks like that from extreme heat variance....like if you were generating a ton of brake heat but there was a long straight right after that gave your brakes tons of air-flow. Repeated cycling like that could do this....maybe....

[Mike]

Tires are getting stickier, so the current S2k drivers are giving the brakes more punishment.

Nothing's mechanically wrong with the brakes, but I do need to flush fluid every session if I want to maintain optimum brake feel (RBF600). I'm switching to a different fluid this year.

I just do time attack; no racing here. Stock brakes, oem-replacement rotors (centric and centric premium for the ones pictured above), and XP12 (pictured above). I'm currently using some prototype metallic pads that a manufacturer provided to me for testing; they're rated for 1100C (same as the XP12).

Autoclub Speedway (roval) is unusually hard on brakes, but I've broken rotors at almost every track I drive at; the only exceptions are WSIR and CVR, which have minimal braking. I'll be back at ACS in two weeks, which will be the ultimate test for the latest batch of prototypes I received.

[schlomo]

Originally Posted by Maxim

I got the info on the 370z from other people in the 370z community. I've driven several of them, though none on a track. I was able to overheat the engine during a test drive.

You got the oil to 280 F on a test drive? I highly doubt that. But if so, I think you're the first.

[crazyyankeefan]

Originally Posted by schlomo

You got the oil to 280 F on a test drive? I highly doubt that. But if so, I think you're the first.

I agree with your assessment on this as well. There's no way to overheat the oil by regular driving on the Z. As an owner myself, not tracking the car, I need to drive on the highway for at least half hour with the rpm consistently at ~3k just to get the oil temp to 245 F. That would still be considered to be in "OK" temp, not ideal, but OK at least. On top of that, even if I downshift to 5th or even the 4th to rev it up for fun, the oil temp doesn't really jump above 250 F.

Don't get me wrong, I would still prefer to have lower operating temp if possible (200~220). However, ideally, if one wishes to track the car, an oil cooler is must for almost every car I think.