FT-86 v.s. MX-5

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by HitTheGas

haven't HKS & Greddy slapped turbos on GT-86s already?

They both have a 86 but I haven't seen one turbo slapped to the FA20 yet.

[HitTheGas]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

They both have a 86 but I haven't seen one turbo slapped to the FA20 yet.

this is from last dec.

http://wot.motortrend.com/subaru-con...ne-143015.html

motortrend doesn't usually make stuff up.

so the engine can & prob will be turboed from the factory at some point

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by HitTheGas

this is from last dec.

http://wot.motortrend.com/subaru-con...ne-143015.html

motortrend doesn't usually make stuff up.

so the engine can & prob will be turboed from the factory at some point

Actually that's for the WRX. It isn't 100% certain it will be in the FRS/BRZ. You can probably swap engines but that's about it.

[chackoc]

Originally Posted by wichiewichie

if someone really want a light weight sport car, like a miata, then why not wait till the next gen miata instead? it will supposedly weight less that 2200 lbs with a better power to weight ratio than the current car. That will keep miataphiles in love with their miatas and not arguing about what car has better driving dynamics, since it would be obvious.... although it would keep bulimic BRZ/FRS owners jealous hummmm

I've also read there won't even be an ND miata. Internet rumors have a nasty and consistent habit of being completely wrong come unveiling. The next Miata may very well be a super lightweight go kart but the ND might also be an NB to the NC's NA.

I hope no one bases a 2012 car buying decision on what a 2013 or 2014 Miata might be like. There's a whole lot of room for disappointment there.

[dabocx]

Originally Posted by HitTheGas

well there are already turbos on the car from aftermarket companies & the car isn't even released.

plus there is quite a bit of room between the engine & hood, that can't be a coincidence.

Pedestrain safety standards.

[wichiewichie]

Originally Posted by chackoc

I've also read there won't even be an ND miata. Internet rumors have a nasty and consistent habit of being completely wrong come unveiling. The next Miata may very well be a super lightweight go kart but the ND might also be an NB to the NC's NA.

I hope no one bases a 2012 car buying decision on what a 2013 or 2014 Miata might be like. There's a whole lot of room for disappointment there.

Yeah, I usually take internet rumors with a grain of salt. I'm just being a little sarcastic since I don't see the point of arguing which car is better.... I don't think anyone here has driven the FRS/BRZ yet. At least I haven't seen any thread about it.

[GenkiElite]

Originally Posted by wichiewichie

if someone really want a light weight sport car, like a miata, then why not wait till the next gen miata instead? it will supposedly weight less that 2200 lbs with a better power to weight ratio than the current car. That will keep miataphiles in love with their miatas and not arguing about what car has better driving dynamics, since it would be obvious.... although it would keep bulimic BRZ/FRS owners jealous hummmm

Under 2200 with todays safty restrictions? I'll believe it when I see it.

[brufleth]

Originally Posted by GenkiElite

Under 2200 with todays safty restrictions? I'll believe it when I see it.

The Lotus Elise does it but last I knew they had to get some pretty difficult exceptions for it to be sold in the US (because of bumper/safety issues) and the Lotus also costs about twice as much as the Miata.

I agree with you. Making cars that light is tough these days if you want them to be street legal.

[wichiewichie]

Originally Posted by brufleth

The Lotus Elise does it but last I knew they had to get some pretty difficult exceptions for it to be sold in the US (because of bumper/safety issues) and the Lotus also costs about twice as much as the Miata.

I agree with you. Making cars that light is tough these days if you want them to be street legal.

If they want to build a sport car that relies on power to weight ratio, instead on just power, they can do it. Not only the structural metal that makes up the chassis accounts for the weight of the whole car. The powertrain makes up a really big chunk of that weight. When car makers build sports car around a high power engine they compromise the weight. a higher power engine alone is usually heavier since it needs stiffer block/rods/crankshat. Also, the powertrain cooling system needs to be big enough to cope with the additional energy that it needs to dissipate. Add the stronger/heavier drivetrain needed to cope with the additional torque. And let's not forget the stiffer structure needed to cope with the higher output from the engine. All of this additional weight will require stronger/heavier suspension components too... so the weight keeps adding on...... without mentioning all of the electronics and unnecessary amenities that people want in their cars.

See, not only government safety requirements affect the weight. Yes, it is part of it, but the main reason is following the market "needs".

[serialk11r]

I bet the Lotus Elise could've passed US safety regulations if they bothered...the UK weight was like what, <1 ton? Throw in airbags, reinforced crash structures, add a few hundred pounds, you still have a killer light car.

Problem is, the UK version had no regards to safety at all and it would cost quite a bit to make one that passes modern safety regulations.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I bet the Lotus Elise could've passed US safety regulations if they bothered...the UK weight was like what, <1 ton? Throw in airbags, reinforced crash structures, add a few hundred pounds, you still have a killer light car.

Problem is, the UK version had no regards to safety at all and it would cost quite a bit to make one that passes modern safety regulations.

the us version was also under a ton. and yeah i dont think the chassis is where most of a cars weight comes form. the elise iirc frame weighs 220lbs. i dont think mazda can come in under 2200 but thats their goal and having that as a goal is important

[serialk11r]

I think it depends on car, when you have a sports car with the need for a rigid chassis a larger body could probably add weight pretty fast. I'm not sure where most of the weight in a car comes from still, the drivetrain can be heavy but typical aluminum V6s are only around 300 pounds service weight, so where's the other missing 1.5 tons on your typical car? Sure transmission, suspension, etc. add mass but in my head it's never quite added up.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I think it depends on car, when you have a sports car with the need for a rigid chassis a larger body could probably add weight pretty fast. I'm not sure where most of the weight in a car comes from still, the drivetrain can be heavy but typical aluminum V6s are only around 300 pounds service weight, so where's the other missing 1.5 tons on your typical car? Sure transmission, suspension, etc. add mass but in my head it's never quite added up.

a rigid chassis is a need for every single type of car but i think weight comes from all sorts of places including the things mentioned. it has to add up

[wichiewichie]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

I think it depends on car, when you have a sports car with the need for a rigid chassis a larger body could probably add weight pretty fast

A rigid chassis does not necessarily means a larger one. The rigidity is related to the design (i.e. moment of inertia and other engineering stuff) and the materials used, not the size. I didn't mentioned it but also Finite Element Analysis (i.e. the use of computer to analyze structures/components), materials science and manufacturing have come a long way and improved every year. This means that they can use better materials and lees of them to make stiffer structures that comply with government requirements. Although this usually comes attached to higher prices... anyhow, it is all a balance between available technology and cost.