Winter Driving?

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Dang it, for some reason the site seems to be having problems and I can't edit that last post.

I do actually give a hoot about Winter driving, very much. I've seen way too much Winter carnage over the years, most of which was totally unnecessary. Which is why topics like this draw my interest.

The '86 is a fairly edgy Winter platform imo and the fact that so many people are attempting to use it 12 months in crappy Northern climes concerns me. Properly skilled and equipped, it's probably feasible, but I could very easily see it go wrong. A wrx (on the right rubber) is a *much* better Winter performance car and far more forgiving.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Ralph Spoilsport

Dang it, for some reason the site seems to be having problems and I can't edit that last post.

I do actually give a hoot about Winter driving, very much. I've seen way too much Winter carnage over the years, most of which was totally unnecessary. Which is why topics like this draw my interest.

The '86 is a fairly edgy Winter platform imo and the fact that so many people are attempting to use it 12 months in crappy Northern climes concerns me. Properly skilled and equipped, it's probably feasible, but I could very easily see it go wrong. A wrx (on the right rubber) is a *much* better Winter performance car and far more forgiving.

I was driving home from dinner out on Sunday night and the snow was horrible in the BRZ. The car wants to drift around just about every turn at slow speeds on snow and take-offs are laughable. The wheels just spin and constantly test the traction control. Without dedicated snow tires, this car is hell to drive in the snow. Thankfully, the ASC and DTC kept me from going into a ditch at least once during that drive home.

In my STI, I'm able to pull some semi-heroic maneuvers in the snow.

On the way home from Sears, I was going about 25mph maybe eight to ten car lengths back expecting a car to turn onto a side street. Instead, they just slid in front of a pickup truck waiting to pull out of that same street. The car just PARKED in the middle of the road... I hit my horn a few times while locking up the ABS before I realized they weren't going to get rolling and I was definitely going to ram them. As I reached maybe 10-15ft from their rear bumper, I turned the wheel hard to the right while hitting the e-brake and rotated the car, sliding sideways, dabbed the gas while counter-steering and slid past the pickup onto the side street with a few feet to spare.

I wish I had dash cam of that save because I was also talking to my wife on the phone with my left hand... Yeah, I was too focused on dodging to even put down the phone. Derp.

If I'd been in my BRZ I might have saved it, but after driving in snow on Sunday, I can say it can be VERY dangerous and I wouldn't do it with traffic around unless the roads are clear or I've got dedicated snow tires. That said, the conditions I was driving in were on very fresh powdery snow (absolutely minimal grip) with the crappy tires that came with the car. My STI has Potenzas. I'm betting if I throw my spare set on the BRZ it'll handle snow a lot better.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

I was driving home from dinner out on Sunday night and the snow was horrible in the BRZ. The car wants to drift around just about every turn at slow speeds on snow and take-offs are laughable. The wheels just spin and constantly test the traction control. Without dedicated snow tires, this car is hell to drive in the snow. Thankfully, the ASC and DTC kept me from going into a ditch at least once during that drive home.

In my STI, I'm able to pull some semi-heroic maneuvers in the snow.

On the way home from Sears, I was going about 25mph maybe eight to ten car lengths back expecting a car to turn onto a side street. Instead, they just slid in front of a pickup truck waiting to pull out of that same street. The car just PARKED in the middle of the road... I hit my horn a few times while locking up the ABS before I realized they weren't going to get rolling and I was definitely going to ram them. As I reached maybe 10-15ft from their rear bumper, I turned the wheel hard to the right while hitting the e-brake and rotated the car, sliding sideways, dabbed the gas while counter-steering and slid past the pickup onto the side street with a few feet to spare.

I wish I had dash cam of that save because I was also talking to my wife on the phone with my left hand... Yeah, I was too focused on dodging to even put down the phone. Derp.

If I'd been in my BRZ I might have saved it, but after driving in snow on Sunday, I can say it can be VERY dangerous and I wouldn't do it with traffic around unless the roads are clear or I've got dedicated snow tires. That said, the conditions I was driving in were on very fresh powdery snow (absolutely minimal grip) with the crappy tires that came with the car. My STI has Potenzas. I'm betting if I throw my spare set on the BRZ it'll handle snow a lot better.

So basically what you are saying is that you don't recommend driving on the summer tires the BRZ comes with in the winter snow. Who'da thunk.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by Steve

So basically what you are saying is that you don't recommend driving on the summer tires the BRZ comes with in the winter snow. Who'da thunk.

Well, this car handles this way on winter tires also. You need winter tires and good driving skills to keep a BRZ on the road in winter conditions.

[Suberman]

Evo October 23'13. Wet track. Undrivable.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Well, this car handles this way on winter tires also. You need winter tires and good driving skills to keep a BRZ on the road in winter conditions.

Nice, I must have really good inherent driving skills. I received the car late October of last year. My first stick shift and first RWD car. Drove her everyday that winter including two severe snow storms, all on Michelin X-ice Xi2. Not once did I lose control, feel unsafe or get stuck. The car is predictable, easy to control and correct during turns, thanks to the feedback from the steering and chassis. Looking forward to tackling the snow again this year, now lowered , and cant wait for some more empty parking lot drifting. That's my experience, and highly doubt i'm alone.

[Kfresh23]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

I was driving home from dinner out on Sunday night and the snow was horrible in the BRZ. The car wants to drift around just about every turn at slow speeds on snow and take-offs are laughable. The wheels just spin and constantly test the traction control. Without dedicated snow tires, this car is hell to drive in the snow. Thankfully, the ASC and DTC kept me from going into a ditch at least once during that drive home.

In my STI, I'm able to pull some semi-heroic maneuvers in the snow.

On the way home from Sears, I was going about 25mph maybe eight to ten car lengths back expecting a car to turn onto a side street. Instead, they just slid in front of a pickup truck waiting to pull out of that same street. The car just PARKED in the middle of the road... I hit my horn a few times while locking up the ABS before I realized they weren't going to get rolling and I was definitely going to ram them. As I reached maybe 10-15ft from their rear bumper, I turned the wheel hard to the right while hitting the e-brake and rotated the car, sliding sideways, dabbed the gas while counter-steering and slid past the pickup onto the side street with a few feet to spare.

I wish I had dash cam of that save because I was also talking to my wife on the phone with my left hand... Yeah, I was too focused on dodging to even put down the phone. Derp.

If I'd been in my BRZ I might have saved it, but after driving in snow on Sunday, I can say it can be VERY dangerous and I wouldn't do it with traffic around unless the roads are clear or I've got dedicated snow tires. That said, the conditions I was driving in were on very fresh powdery snow (absolutely minimal grip) with the crappy tires that came with the car. My STI has Potenzas. I'm betting if I throw my spare set on the BRZ it'll handle snow a lot better.

I would say driving distracted (talking on the phone) is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than driving the Brz in the winter....

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52798

See thread for a REAL snow miracle.

Any vehicle that drives in a winter climate should get winter tires....ANY!! It's a law in Quebec, and should be anywhere there is a winter season....it will save lives and money.

If you are fortunate enough to own more than one vehicle, then that's great.....I am not.....I drive my Brz.....without any issues.......all year round.

Don't drive distracted......pay attention.....learn how your car reacts and behaves....get proper tires.....and get out there and drive!!!
Or......take the bus

[Flyer]

Originally Posted by Suberman

On summer temperature dry road?

Sure thing!

Your tires are worn out if you can.

Date: June 23rd, 2013
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Pavement type: Asphalt
Tires: 195/50/R15 Toyo R1R
Tread: No less than 7/32" all around
Tire pressure: 28 PSI all around
Front camber: -2.0°
Front toe: 0
Rear camber: -1.8°
Rear toe: 0
Front shocks: KYB AGX set to 1
Rear shocks: KYB AGX set to 1
Front spring rate: 375
Rear spring rate: 250
Average temperature: 26 °C
Max temperature: 32 °C
Average wind speed: 11 km/h
Max wind speed: 32 km/h
Max gust speed: 44 km/h
Sea level pressure: 1016.30 hPa

Power oversteer in my less than 100 lb·ft Miata in the conditions above...definitely a poor chassis...can't possibly be me...

Originally Posted by 7thgear

...
so random question for you, seeing as how you're a handling expert, if i check the Calgary autocross/time attack boards you should be well known by the community... right?

[GodDamage]

Everyone in this thread replying to Suberman defined in one picture

[7thgear]

how else am I gonna eat? sheesh

[Ralph Spoilsport]

In North Amerika, troll feeds you!

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by kuhlka

I was driving home from dinner out on Sunday night and the snow was horrible in the BRZ. The car wants to drift around just about every turn at slow speeds on snow and take-offs are laughable. The wheels just spin and constantly test the traction control. Without dedicated snow tires, this car is hell to drive in the snow. Thankfully, the ASC and DTC kept me from going into a ditch at least once during that drive home.

In my STI, I'm able to pull some semi-heroic maneuvers in the snow.

On the way home from Sears, I was going about 25mph maybe eight to ten car lengths back expecting a car to turn onto a side street. Instead, they just slid in front of a pickup truck waiting to pull out of that same street. The car just PARKED in the middle of the road... I hit my horn a few times while locking up the ABS before I realized they weren't going to get rolling and I was definitely going to ram them. As I reached maybe 10-15ft from their rear bumper, I turned the wheel hard to the right while hitting the e-brake and rotated the car, sliding sideways, dabbed the gas while counter-steering and slid past the pickup onto the side street with a few feet to spare.

I wish I had dash cam of that save because I was also talking to my wife on the phone with my left hand... Yeah, I was too focused on dodging to even put down the phone. Derp.

If I'd been in my BRZ I might have saved it, but after driving in snow on Sunday, I can say it can be VERY dangerous and I wouldn't do it with traffic around unless the roads are clear or I've got dedicated snow tires. That said, the conditions I was driving in were on very fresh powdery snow (absolutely minimal grip) with the crappy tires that came with the car. My STI has Potenzas. I'm betting if I throw my spare set on the BRZ it'll handle snow a lot better.

So you're driving distracted (on your phone) on pure summer tires in the snow in a light RWD sports car, and you blame the car for not handling it well?

I'm starting to see a pattern with the people faulting the car in bad weather.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by wparsons

So you're driving distracted (on your phone) on pure summer tires in the snow in a light RWD sports car, and you blame the car for not handling it well?

I'm starting to see a pattern with the people faulting the car in bad weather.

Haven't you heard? Nothing is ever your own fault anymore these days.

[kuhlka]

Originally Posted by Steve

So basically what you are saying is that you don't recommend driving on the summer tires the BRZ comes with in the winter snow. Who'da thunk.

It's not obvious, otherwise we wouldn't have a thread for winter driving.

Originally Posted by Steve

Nice, I must have really good inherent driving skills. I received the car late October of last year. My first stick shift and first RWD car. Drove her everyday that winter including two severe snow storms, all on Michelin X-ice Xi2. Not once did I lose control, feel unsafe or get stuck. The car is predictable, easy to control and correct during turns, thanks to the feedback from the steering and chassis. Looking forward to tackling the snow again this year, now lowered , and cant wait for some more empty parking lot drifting. That's my experience, and highly doubt i'm alone.

It helps if you aren't going anywhere near the speed limit and have dedicated snow tires. I imagine the BRZ would be stupid fun with studs.

Originally Posted by Kfresh23

I would say driving distracted (talking on the phone) is MUCH MORE DANGEROUS than driving the Brz in the winter....

Don't drive distracted......pay attention.....learn how your car reacts and behaves....get proper tires.....and get out there and drive!!!
Or......take the bus

I was paying attention. That was the main point of my story. If I wasn't paying attention, I would have slid right into the back of that car. Another point is that just because you're going <25mph and are 8+ car lengths behind someone doesn't mean you have enough follow distance if you hit a patch of solid ice hidden by the snow. Better have good instincts and know exactly how your car handles if you start sliding like I did.

My anecdote about driving the BRZ on stock tires was more as a warning to others who might think they're safe once the snow starts flying. I'm a fairly decent driver, haven't had a ticket in 8 years, no accidents since 1997. I've only gone off-roading in snow twice since I started driving in the mid 90s, and I'm in Ohio where the snow gets pretty bad. I could probably get used to throwing the BRZ around in the snow, but I cringe when I think about getting it all coated and scratched with salt. Maybe next winter if I can shoot a few layers of plasti dip on first.

Originally Posted by wparsons

So you're driving distracted (on your phone) on pure summer tires in the snow in a light RWD sports car, and you blame the car for not handling it well?

I'm starting to see a pattern with the people faulting the car in bad weather.

So you're reading a paragraph and completely fail to see the part about how I was driving my STI and didn't wreck...

My wife was in the car with me when I was driving the BRZ in the snow and I wasn't on the phone. I also didn't come close to wrecking that night either. I was just noting that the stock tires are pure crap on powder and you'll be constantly testing your ABS, ASC, and DTC if you get caught in snow on stock tires. The car will probably handle worlds better if I throw on my spare set of Potenzas. They work pretty well year-round on my STI, but Blizzaks would be better.