FRS stroker kit?

[mike the snake]

Instead of waiting for custom rods to become available, I have to think there's existing rods available that are very close to the sizes needed that can be modified by a machine shop.

One could either modify the crank to fit the rods, or modify the rods to fit the crank, and even custom pistons made for whatever length the rods are.

[endrswrd]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Instead of waiting for custom rods to become available, I have to think there's existing rods available that are very close to the sizes needed that can be modified by a machine shop.

One could either modify the crank to fit the rods, or modify the rods to fit the crank, and even custom pistons made for whatever length the rods are.

Well of course! But then your talking a whole bunch more money...

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by ja1217

The formula for horsepower is (RPM * Tourque) / 5252. So, if cams/head work could say make 160 lbs. torque at 8000 rpm, that would be (8000 * 160) / 5252 = 243.7 whp. So if head work and cams can essentially hold peak torque for an extra 1000 rpms, we could make some serious power.

I think I based my guesstimates off 150lb/ft, which still gives ~228whp at 8k rpm. 230-240whp would be fantastic if it's doable with a header/full exhaust, cams (and springs/etc) and tune.

Dyno dependent, 240whp would be roughly a 50% improvement over stock.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by endrswrd

Considering it hasnt been done before IDK. But once the rods / crank were available for the stroker kit, you would need to then go to sleeves so you could go to a higher bore, and get the higher bore / low compression pistons.

I would say it would be a bit more then a typical motor build. Probably 10 grand for a shop to do it for you. If you did head work it would be more I am guessing. With these parts being new it may be more though.

I wouldnt say I am lucky though.... Everything still costs money. Just because I save some still doesnt mean I can easily justify dropping 10-15k into a car that I still owe money on....

I think a 2.2l or 2.3l stroked block would be awesome, but I'd want to buy it as a separate block... that way if it blows, I can put the original block back in.

But I'm like you. I have 0 desire to drop 10k in engine mods on a car I'm making payments on. But an SC kit on the other hand... that's less than $5k, including tune. That's doable.

[DAMotorsports]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Instead of waiting for custom rods to become available, I have to think there's existing rods available that are very close to the sizes needed that can be modified by a machine shop.

One could either modify the crank to fit the rods, or modify the rods to fit the crank, and even custom pistons made for whatever length the rods are.

The problem is the shape of the rods; the bend is for clearance and smoothness. Which is not the normal for a rod design.
As for dropping the base compression, WHY? With the DI system it opens up a whole new playing game. Sure we can use older thoughts and drop the base numbers and pump the boost. But when you drop the base numbers you will lose the low end torque.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

The problem is the shape of the rods; the bend is for clearance and smoothness. Which is not the normal for a rod design.
As for dropping the base compression, WHY? With the DI system it opens up a whole new playing game. Sure we can use older thoughts and drop the base numbers and pump the boost. But when you drop the base numbers you will lose the low end torque.

i agree. i think di and especially e85 change the math quite a bit from the ej's and other older engines. you can do some pretty crazy stuff that was unthinkable just a while ago. i mean who would've guessed there would be so many fa20's running around reliably at 10+psi and 12.5:1 compression? and the effect of the combination is fantastic.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i mean who would've guessed there would be so many fa20's running around reliably at 10+psi and 12.5:1 compression?

For now.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

For now.

any amount of time is impressive. it's 12.5:1. boosting that at all is crazy talk by conventional wisdom.

[Snake]

People have very warped ideas of turbo reliability. Just because something ran on the dyno for 20 pulls and is driven on the street for 5,000kms and didn't explode in my mind doesn't mean it is reliable.

If you're able to run that flat out on the circuit 12 times a year for 15 minutes at a time without it exploding or requiring rebuilding, then I might call it reliable. By flat out I don't mean, out 1 hot lap, then 1 cool down lap, I mean 15 mins of thrashing it with cool down on the final lap.

I bet none of the basic kits could do that.

I also bet that none of those 10psi kits are going to run reliably for more than a year or two.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Snake

People have very warped ideas of turbo reliability. Just because something ran on the dyno for 20 pulls and is driven on the street for 5,000kms and didn't explode in my mind doesn't mean it is reliable.

If you're able to run that flat out on the circuit 12 times a year for 15 minutes at a time without it exploding or requiring rebuilding, then I might call it reliable. By flat out I don't mean, out 1 hot lap, then 1 cool down lap, I mean 15 mins of thrashing it with cool down on the final lap.

I bet none of the basic kits could do that.

I also bet that none of those 10psi kits are going to run reliably for more than a year or two.

If a turbo kit runs reliably on a dyno and 5-10k kms/miles on the street but has issues lapping then it's most likely issues with other components, not the engine or turbo kit itself.

To run boosted 15 minute lapping sessions you're going to need serious cooling upgrades to keep all the temps (coolant, oil, IAT, etc) in check. Most failures in that case would be from overheated oil not lubricating enough or IATs climbing and causing knock.

[chiefshayan]

Originally Posted by wparsons

If a turbo kit runs reliably on a dyno and 5-10k kms/miles on the street but has issues lapping then it's most likely issues with other components, not the engine or turbo kit itself.

To run boosted 15 minute lapping sessions you're going to need serious cooling upgrades to keep all the temps (coolant, oil, IAT, etc) in check. Most failures in that case would be from overheated oil not lubricating enough or IATs climbing and causing knock.

I agree. I know Full Blown Motorsports has a turbo kit on car that's in the Scion tuner challenge which has held up for about a year now. I think cooling is often overlooked when adding a turbo.

[ame]http://youtu.be/puhX7b2BB7A[/ame]

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Snake

People have very warped ideas of turbo reliability. Just because something ran on the dyno for 20 pulls and is driven on the street for 5,000kms and didn't explode in my mind doesn't mean it is reliable.

If you're able to run that flat out on the circuit 12 times a year for 15 minutes at a time without it exploding or requiring rebuilding, then I might call it reliable. By flat out I don't mean, out 1 hot lap, then 1 cool down lap, I mean 15 mins of thrashing it with cool down on the final lap.

I bet none of the basic kits could do that.

I also bet that none of those 10psi kits are going to run reliably for more than a year or two.

a stock fr-s can't do that. and considering that there are already cars with 20+k miles with 420+whp, i don't see how you arrive at 10psi and 2 years as your estimation of long term reliability.

but your sentiment is right: when you go FI you should expect to build an engine. it may be because you broke yours with boost, but more likely it'll be because the drug got you and you want more power. in any case, it usually happens, and that's kinda the point. i don't think many people who go FI really want to hang out around 250-300whp, they just think they do until they drive in one with more power.

[Ashybone]

^^^^^
This.

I think we say, "If only I had another_______ horsepower I'd be happy." That sentance turns into "If I add/do this, I'll be able to get another _____ horsepower." I know I want my FR-S faster but right now I have three factory boosted cars that don't run. AND i'm still throwing money at the FR-S with the payments anyway. I think I might get a full exhaust, intake, tune and call it a day on the FR-S... Possibly rims, not even tires cuz I like to slide .

Boosting a car cuts the life of the engine no matter what you do. Your MAKING it do more work then what it's ment to do, thus the name FORCED induction. Even if you build a bullet proof engine your just lengthening the half life of your engine.

That being said, I've been toying with the idea of buying a crate motor/tranny for this car boosting it and if it blows swap in the stock motor/tranny and rebuild what got destroyed. But what would be the point in all that when I still have $27,xxx.xx owed on this car.

Get a DSM, drop $500 in upgrades, have a 350hp car, call it a day on your boost fix.

[mike the snake]

I had read that the rods were angled at the big end for ease of construction. I assumed aftermarket rods would be normal.

My car is getting turboed, with methanol injection, on 91 gas. I'm going for as much safe power as I can get on the stock block and 91.

I am however also getting bigger radiator, oil cooler, clutch, and I'm hoping my engine will handle track days and still be reliable. If it blows I'll definitely get a built block though.

Originally Posted by DAMotorsports

The problem is the shape of the rods; the bend is for clearance and smoothness. Which is not the normal for a rod design.
As for dropping the base compression, WHY? With the DI system it opens up a whole new playing game. Sure we can use older thoughts and drop the base numbers and pump the boost. But when you drop the base numbers you will lose the low end torque.