Video: HKS 86 drift car + first 86/FR-S/BRZ dyno = 170 rwhp!!!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

Formula 1 cars derive their handling from downforce.

Said downforce combined with sticky tires creates enormous amounts of drag. Consider that the drag coefficient of an F1 car is 3-4 times larger than a typical production vehicle.

To overcome this drag and generate the necessary downforce in order to turn the vehicle quickly you must have gobs of power.


furthermore, RAW horsepower is the main ingredient in breaking through wind resistance on straights.

With the exception of a few places on this planet, road speeds are controlled. So going past 100km (when horsepower actually starts to count) is, well, illegal


In that sense, since handling is an attribute which is felt 100% of the time, it is worth more than having gobs of power that you'll never use without attracting the wrong kind of attention.


as for the race track, as was said before, budgets and whole different level of competition start to play a factor.

Handling comes into play in corners so I don't get what you mean by this. And 100% of the roads in the world is not curves.


On my daily commute I run into 75% straights and 25% curves/corners.(I think every American does..lol)

Care to explain what you meant?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

200hp in a 2600 chassis is enough to have fun on any track, and more than enough to have fun at an Autocross (which has class designations anyway, means there is zero need to up your power)

Perhaps a stripped out race car will weigh that much, but the road-going car is closer 2800lbs. 2762 is closer to 2800 than it is to 2700, if anyone wants to argue that point you're welcome to.

I'm not saying this car won't be fun, but there's plenty to be said for being pegged into the seat when getting on the throttle. Should I actually have time to autocross this car, it will be more fun than my WRX. As it stands, it's slower than my nearly stock WRX and will not have the satisfaction of BOOST a half-second after flooring it through a turn. I can understand why people have grips about the power, but that's a problem that won't be going away anytime soon. We've all been brainwashed to believe MOAR POWUHH is MOAR BETTERER!

Do I still want it? Yeah. Am I still gonna buy one? Yeah. Am I gonna miss my WRX? Yeah.

[7thgear]

so you're of the opinion that handling goes out the window on straights?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

so you're of the opinion that handling goes out the window on straights?

Guess he's never thought about how stable a car is as being related to handling.

[catharsis]

Balance, under powered cars are not balanced. The frs/brz is not balanced. Basically I fear that this car would lose to nearly all its competition in a track enviroment just because of its low power output. Straights matter on a track guys. And in autocross a lot depends on its classing it could be a non contender.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Perhaps a stripped out race car will weigh that much, but the road-going car is closer 2800lbs. 2762 is closer to 2800 than it is to 2700, if anyone wants to argue that point you're welcome to.

I'm not saying this car won't be fun, but there's plenty to be said for being pegged into the seat when getting on the throttle. Should I actually have time to autocross this car, it will be more fun than my WRX. As it stands, it's slower than my nearly stock WRX and will not have the satisfaction of BOOST a half-second after flooring it through a turn. I can understand why people have grips about the power, but that's a problem that won't be going away anytime soon. We've all been brainwashed to believe MOAR POWUHH is MOAR BETTERER!

Do I still want it? Yeah. Am I still gonna buy one? Yeah. Am I gonna miss my WRX? Yeah.

I believe DSPORT weighed the Greddy FR-S and got 2730 lbs with a half-tank of gas and 19" rims.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Guess he's never thought about how stable a car is as being related to handling.

Anytime there is weight transfer in any direction; acceleration, deceleration, left/right turns "handling" as it were is in effect. It is not simply steering input required to change the yaw and/or direction of the vehicle. 7thgear's statement is accurate.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

so you're of the opinion that handling goes out the window on straights?

I understand straight line stability through handling yes, but the fun part of handling is in the curves.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by mines13

Anytime there is weight transfer in any direction; acceleration, deceleration, left/right turns "handling" as it were is in effect. It is not simply steering input required to change the yaw and/or direction of the vehicle. 7thgear's statement is accurate.

To be clearer, I was not disagreeing with 7thgear.

[serialk11r]

Regarding the power debate, do people really ever floor it on the street? If you buy a bigger engine just so you can feel more acceleration at part throttle, that's wasting all the extra capacity. Makes more sense to keep the smaller engine, and actually use it if you want to feel the forces of acceleration.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Regarding the power debate, do people really ever floor it on the street? If you buy a bigger engine just so you can feel more acceleration at part throttle, that's wasting all the extra capacity. Makes more sense to keep the smaller engine, and actually use it if you want to feel the forces of acceleration.

So much truth in there, this is something I enjoyed in my S2000. You could go WOT all over and you were never really going all that fast. compare this to my 300ZXTT where you were pretty much going to do jail time playing the same game.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by mines13

So much truth in there, this is something I enjoyed in my S2000. You could go WOT all over and you were never really going all that fast. compare this to my 300ZXTT where you were pretty much going to do jail time playing the same game.

I know what you mean. My Thai friend used to own a 2002 AP1 and it felt kinda slow until he went above 6500 rpms. It became a rush at high rpms only. It felt amazing.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Regarding the power debate, do people really ever floor it on the street? If you buy a bigger engine just so you can feel more acceleration at part throttle, that's wasting all the extra capacity. Makes more sense to keep the smaller engine, and actually use it if you want to feel the forces of acceleration.

Everyday in my WRX. Why bother having a car like that if I'm not gonna experience the engine?

[catharsis]

Originally Posted by mines13

So much truth in there, this is something I enjoyed in my S2000. You could go WOT all over and you were never really going all that fast. compare this to my 300ZXTT where you were pretty much going to do jail time playing the same game.

I floor it all the time, only 1st and 2nd gear pulls of course. I try to stay safe on the streets and only do it when the roads empty. I get off from work late like 11pm, the roads are the empty, and it's a great feeling after work just to gas it through 2 gear pulls as I enter the highway.