Video: HKS 86 drift car + first 86/FR-S/BRZ dyno = 170 rwhp!!!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by toxicdrift

+1 Can't seem to find this vid anywhere

Good thing I downloaded it. I had a feeling they would take it down.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by mines13

This applies, from a man who knew his way around a 935...

"It's been my experience that straight-line acceleration is probably the first aspect of automotive performance that any intelligent driver gets bored with." -Peter Gregg

The thing I don't understand is if straight-line acceleration is so damn boring then why the hell most professional racing companies just don't focus on a car that is all about handling only? I would think that F1 needs to start using Mazda Mx5's straight from the Mazda dealerships and throw those F1 racing cars in the trash.

I don't agree 100%. But if he said something about a balance between handling and power then I would agree 1,000,000%

[Levi]

+1

Why have only straight-line acceleration or only handling when we can have both?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The thing I don't understand is if straight-line acceleration is so damn boring then why the hell most professional racing companies just don't focus on a car that is all about handling only? I would think that F1 needs to start using Mazda Mx5's straight from the Mazda dealerships and throw those F1 racing cars in the trash.

I don't agree 100%. But if he said something about a balance between handling and power then I would agree 1,000,000%

and how many of you here are professional racers? Raise your hand?

I've been doing time attacks and auto-cross for the last 6 years, i would never consider myself a professional racer.

there are differences when you have no budget and want to have fun with your car, and when you and every single one of your competitor has stacks and the prize money will buy you hookers for a month.

200hp in a 2600 chassis is enough to have fun on any track, and more than enough to have fun at an Autocross (which has class designations anyway, means there is zero need to up your power)

Also, i personally like to stay on the throttle, rather than babying it through a corner, flooring it for 2 seconds, then getting hard on the brakes. But to each his own

[mines13]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

The thing I don't understand is if straight-line acceleration is so damn boring then why the hell most professional racing companies just don't focus on a car that is all about handling only? I would think that F1 needs to start using Mazda Mx5's straight from the Mazda dealerships and throw those F1 racing cars in the trash.

I don't agree 100%. But if he said something about a balance between handling and power then I would agree 1,000,000%

I guess the point of the statement eluded you, it was not a commentary on what is a more important metric bar none in racing; It is a statement on what bores an intelligent driver first. Peter Gregg was a man who drove in an era when racing was dangerous. He won the 24hrs of Daytona 4 times, and won the IMSA GTO championship 4 times over all... If your race car does not have the complete package in competitive motorsport, you will not win. But we are discussing qualities that road going car should possess, in context. Peter made this statement in an era when most road going cars had steering boxes, monster V8s and automatic transmissions... Then again I guess comprehension can not be taught.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

and how many of you here are professional racers? Raise your hand?

I've been doing time attacks and auto-cross for the last 6 years, i would never consider myself a professional racer.

there are differences when you have no budget and want to have fun with your car, and when you and every single one of your competitor has stacks and the prize money will buy you hookers for a month.

200hp in a 2600 chassis is enough to have fun on any track, and more than enough to have fun at an Autocross (which has class designations anyway, means there is zero need to up your power)

Also, i personally like to stay on the throttle, rather than babying it through a corner, flooring it for 2 seconds, then getting hard on the brakes. But to each his own

The rewards of feedback and finesse greatly out weigh sheer speed. Nobody is bank rolling our on track exploits for us. Kudos for getting it.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by mines13

I guess the point of the statement eluded you, it was not a commentary on what is a more important metric bar none in racing; It is a statement on what bores an intelligent driver first. Peter Gregg was a man who drove in an era when racing was dangerous. He won the 24hrs of Daytona 4 times, and won the IMSA GTO championship 4 times over all... If your race car does not have the complete package in competitive motorsport, you will not win. But we are discussing qualities that road going car should possess, in context. Peter made this statement in an era when most road going cars had steering boxes, monster V8s and automatic transmissions... Then again I guess comprehension can not be taught.

You actually got what I was trying to say. "COMPLETE PACKAGE". I overstand you 100% but it doesn't mean that I totally agree. I love feel and handling just like you or anyone else here but I love the complete package a bit more.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You actually got what I was trying to say. "COMPLETE PACKAGE". I overstand you 100% but it doesn't mean that I totally agree. I love feel and handling just like you or anyone else here but I love the complete package a bit more.

Sigh. Again, context. We were discussing a street car and you went to "Miata engines in F1 cars". You can define "complete package" however you wish, but in a road car it makes no difference if a Camaro, Genesis coupe, Civic, F150, ox cart, etc. has greater straight line acceleration. I ask that you please read the entire post before you respond.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by mines13

Sigh. Again, context. We were discussing a street car and you went to "Miata engines in F1 cars". You can define "complete package" however you wish, but in a road car it makes no difference if a Camaro, Genesis coupe, Civic, F150, ox cart, etc. has greater straight line acceleration.

Never said that.

[mines13]

I am sorry, I miss paraphrased. This was the quote I intended to reference.

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

I would think that F1 needs to start using Mazda Mx5's straight from the Mazda dealerships and throw those F1 racing cars in the trash.

In reference to you taking my original quote out of context.

[7thgear]

I'm curious where do people get this idea that you could ever compare a GROUND PLANE to anything that we do over here.

Formula 1 has brought much to the automotive world, but an F1.. vehicle.. is not a street car.

[mines13]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I'm curious where do people get this idea that you could ever compare a GROUND PLANE to anything that we do over here.

Formula 1 has brought much to the automotive world, but an F1.. vehicle.. is not a street car.

Fact, I find it funny when people take something subjective and try to make it objective. As in what makes one bored, we are all aware of how fast one can go in a setup race car.

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 7thgear

I'm curious where do people get this idea that you could ever compare a GROUND PLANE to anything that we do over here.

Formula 1 has brought much to the automotive world, but an F1.. vehicle.. is not a street car.

You missed my point.

If handling is the only part of a sports car that is considered fun then why the hell is manufacturers making them faster? For profit?

[7thgear]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

You missed my point.

If handling is the only part of a sports car that is considered fun then why the hell is manufacturers making them faster? For profit?

Formula 1 cars derive their handling from downforce.

Said downforce combined with sticky tires creates enormous amounts of drag. Consider that the drag coefficient of an F1 car is 3-4 times larger than a typical production vehicle.

To overcome this drag and generate the necessary downforce in order to turn the vehicle quickly you must have gobs of power.


furthermore, RAW horsepower is the main ingredient in breaking through wind resistance on straights.

With the exception of a few places on this planet, road speeds are controlled. So going past 100km (when horsepower actually starts to count) is, well, illegal


In that sense, since handling is an attribute which is felt 100% of the time, it is worth more than having gobs of power that you'll never use without attracting the wrong kind of attention.


as for the race track, as was said before, budgets and whole different level of competition start to play a factor.