Are you faster with traction control on or off?

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by Jose_Timberlake

Lol! Where exactly was there an insult being made?

You keep saying Im a troll yet you can't prove that Im a hazzard for driving with TC off... there's a reason why you can turn TC off... it is an option...

[TomWalton]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

So, all you can do is come up with a hypothetical scenario that may never happen, and have no clue as to how I will react or how I drive, then proceed to say I have a god send skills, which, again, you don't know how I drive, and you don't know what experiences I've had in my life while driving.

You can live with your false sense of security, by all means, I've never had TC, and never had an accident, and if I eventually have an accident... well, bad luck.

It doesn't matter how "you" drive in his scenario, and your "experiences" are of no consequence. You're not even relevant in the first 350ms or so. Your body simply cannot react in time, and you can't control individual wheels even if you could figure out which ones and how much correction to apply.

You're driving a car that was *designed* to be tail-happy with TC/VSC turned off, and its great fun under controlled conditions where you won't kill yourself or anyone else when you lose it. Its foolish and irresponsible to drive it that way in traffic on public highways in bad weather.

Engineering students - I was one 30 years ago - often have an unearned smugness about their ability to control their universe. Seasoned engineers know from experience that unanticipated events occur, that our senses and brain and muscles are slow to respond, that human attention and focus are variable, and that good margins are a good thing.

Good luck with the degree. Write us back in ten years or so.

[Steve201brz]

All around my house its 25mph roads maybe two that are 35mph. Local cruising I usually turn it off just to have some fun hearing the tires (to/from work). Childish but I don't care haha. I don't hit the gas too hard, you really don't need to. Simply driving too slow to have real impact on safety. Highway cruising? Best to leave it on especially where I live. Deer are a bigger "unexpected" hazard than people
So much tension over driving habits lol...

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by TomWalton

It doesn't matter how "you" drive in his scenario, and your "experiences" are of no consequence. You're not even relevant in the first 350ms or so. Your body simply cannot react in time, and you can't control individual wheels even if you could figure out which ones and how much correction to apply.

You're driving a car that was *designed* to be tail-happy with TC/VSC turned off, and its great fun under controlled conditions where you won't kill yourself or anyone else when you lose it. Its foolish and irresponsible to drive it that way in traffic on public highways in bad weather.

Engineering students - I was one 30 years ago - often have an unearned smugness about their ability to control their universe. Seasoned engineers know from experience that unanticipated events occur, that our senses and brain and muscles are slow to respond, that human attention and focus are variable, and that good margins are a good thing.

Good luck with the degree. Write us back in ten years or so.

TC/VSC off won't make the car more tail happy, if it was that way, TC/VSC would be working all the time making small corrections, which it isn't. And if it's always activating on your car, then you're a bad driver.

It wasn't till 2012 where TC became a mandatory feature on cars sold in the US, iirc. I never lost control of a car in all the years I've been driving cars without traction control, so why would I lose control now just because the car came with TC as a feature?

The only smug people here are you guys who say that having TC off = road hazzard... it's the same smuggness that prius drivers have against gas guzzlers. They are "saving" the environment, and everyone else should do the same and buy hybrids. If not, you're a prick, scum, waste of a human.

[TomWalton]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

TC/VSC off won't make the car more tail happy, if it was that way, TC/VSC would be working all the time making small corrections, which it isn't. And if it's always activating on your car, then you're a bad driver.

It wasn't till 2012 where TC became a mandatory feature on cars sold in the US, iirc. I never lost control of a car in all the years I've been driving cars without traction control, so why would I lose control now just because the car came with TC as a feature?

The only smug people here are you guys who say that having TC off = road hazzard... it's the same smuggness that prius drivers have against gas guzzlers. They are "saving" the environment, and everyone else should do the same and buy hybrids. If not, you're a prick, scum, waste of a human.

At the risk of repeating the obvious:

You're driving a car that was *designed* to oversteer/slide *at low speeds on dry pavement* with TC/VSC turned off. We've all seen Clarkson slide at 30 mph while reading a book. That's great fun under controlled conditions where you won't kill yourself or anyone else when you lose it. Its foolish and irresponsible to drive it that way in traffic on public highways in bad weather.

And once more:

Your entire driving history and general awesomeness are meaningless in traffic on a wet road at 70 miles an hour. The car's momentum and kinetic energy are enormous at that speed, and we know the rear end likes to come out. You're *not physically capable* of recovering from an unintended slide caused by some idiot in a Corolla cutting you off, making you jerk the wheel; you simply can't react fast enough, and the car *will* want to oversteer. You also can't avoid careening into the mom/baby in the next lane over. The VSC is your only hope. Physics, mechanics, you know.. engineer stuff.

On the track, go for it. There's a consensually shared risk among the drivers, fewer cars, and (one hopes) more skilled drivers.

Of course, you'll do what you like. What's puzzling is that you should be able to work this out yourself. Don't design any bridges.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by TomWalton

At the risk of repeating the obvious:

You're driving a car that was *designed* to oversteer/slide *at low speeds on dry pavement* with TC/VSC turned off. We've all seen Clarkson slide at 30 mph while reading a book. That's great fun under controlled conditions where you won't kill yourself or anyone else when you lose it. Its foolish and irresponsible to drive it that way in traffic on public highways in bad weather.

And once more:

Your entire driving history and general awesomeness are meaningless in traffic on a wet road at 70 miles an hour. The car's momentum and kinetic energy are enormous at that speed, and we know the rear end likes to come out. You're *not physically capable* of recovering from an unintended slide caused by some idiot in a Corolla cutting you off, making you jerk the wheel; you simply can't react fast enough, and the car *will* want to oversteer. You also can't avoid careening into the mom/baby in the next lane over. The VSC is your only hope. Physics, mechanics, you know.. engineer stuff.

On the track, go for it. There's a consensually shared risk among the drivers, fewer cars, and (one hopes) more skilled drivers.

Of course, you'll do what you like. What's puzzling is that you should be able to work this out yourself. Don't design any bridges.

DD'ing this car, I haven't noticed it's oversteering characteristic, probably cause it takes more to get the FR-S to slide than my E39 where I could get it to slide at 10 or 15mph less than what it takes the FR-S to slide out... Just because a car was designed to have tail out fun, doesn't mean it's the most tail happy car in the world, and it was designed to do controlled slides, this is not a Corvair where it would slide out from under you unexpectedly.


and if someone cuts you off and you jerk the wheel you're doing it wrong.

[thill]

@Tom, some arguments are just not worth having....

[Minhtyfresh]

Just out of curiosity... how do you folks arguing back and forth about TC off feel about "VSC sport" mode on public roads?

Disclaimer -
My belief here is that there is NO reason you should be losing traction intentionally on public roads. Thus no reason to disable TC. Assuming the slip is NOT intentional, TC can only be safer than TC off... Assuming you DO slip intentionally, you're a jackass, get off the road.

VSC lets you slip a bit too, but still babies you back into traction if you slip too far. Relatively acceptable on public roads I would think. So if you're on the edge of traction you can still feel the difference, but the risk is lower.

There is no way for me to justify TC off on public roads, unless you are stuck in snow or mud...

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by Minhtyfresh

Just out of curiosity... how do you folks arguing back and forth about TC off feel about "VSC sport" mode on public roads?

Disclaimer -
My belief here is that there is NO reason you should be losing traction intentionally on public roads. Thus no reason to disable TC. Assuming the slip is NOT intentional, TC can only be safer than TC off... Assuming you DO slip intentionally, you're a jackass, get off the road.

VSC lets you slip a bit too, but still babies you back into traction if you slip too far. Relatively acceptable on public roads I would think. So if you're on the edge of traction you can still feel the difference, but the risk is lower.

There is no way for me to justify TC off on public roads, unless you are stuck in snow or mud...

I can say the same, if you aren't losing traction why do you need TC in the first place?

The argument works for both parties.

Sure TC can save you in a few very specific cases, but those cases involve a combination of breaking the law (taking a corner faster than it was designed for) or driving at speeds that weather doesn't allow.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

I can say the same, if you aren't losing traction why do you need TC in the first place?

The argument works for both parties.

Sure TC can save you in a few very specific cases, but those cases involve a combination of breaking the law (taking a corner faster than it was designed for) or driving at speeds that weather doesn't allow.

You're talking about predictable variables. TC will also aid you in unpredictable scenarios, such as an unexpected oil spill on the road.

I like the added safety that TC provides during my normal commute, but I also like the fact that Toyota/Subaru gave us the option to turn it off for the track/spirited drives.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by ayau

You're talking about predictable variables. TC will also aid you in unpredictable scenarios, such as an unexpected oil spill on the road.

I like the added safety that TC provides during my normal commute, but I also like the fact that Toyota/Subaru gave us the option to turn it off for the track/spirited drives.

Thing is, even with traction control, if you can't react to a sudden unpredictable scenario, you can have an accident even with TC by making a bad decision. TC isn't a fool proof plan as everyone in this thread is making it out to be.

I can and have gone all my life without relying on TC, and have not had an accident. It may increase my chances of avoiding an accident by 2% in some situations, but to me that 2% is just insignificant.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Luis_GT

It may increase my chances of avoiding an accident by 2% in some situations, but to me that 2% is just insignificant.

MUAHAHAHAHA You admitted it, victory to the people!



The war is over!

Nobody has claimed anything significantly larger than what you stated, you have admitted your foolishness and it will never be forgotten.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

MUAHAHAHAHA You admitted it, victory to the people!



The war is over!

Nobody has claimed anything significantly larger than what you stated, you have admitted your foolishness and it will never be forgotten.

2% is a rather insignificant number, thus TC is insignificant

[TomWalton]

Originally Posted by thill

@Tom, some arguments are just not worth having....

You're a wise man. I'll heed your counsel.

--Tom