am I crazy to like the auto more than manual?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Suberman

There are plenty of planetary transmissions in high end sportscars, depending on your definition.

There is no inherent superiority to a DCT over a planetary gearbox. In fact, the planetary transmission is more efficient, lighter and handles more torque. Also, planetary transmissions are likely to be more durable.

There is one inherent superiority - dual clutch gearboxes are still significantly faster shifting than ordinary autos.

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[dotdotdotPaul]

Originally Posted by Suberman

There are plenty of planetary transmissions in high end sportscars, depending on your definition.

There is no inherent superiority to a DCT over a planetary gearbox. In fact, the planetary transmission is more efficient, lighter and handles more torque. Also, planetary transmissions are likely to be more durable.

I don't think this is true.

The RX-8 with an automatic had 30hp less than the manual. The reason was because the redline on the automatic was at 7500rpm -- the limit a 'slushbox' could handle. The manual, on the other hand, redlined at 9000rpm.

The supercars with "automatics" these days are almost certainly automated manuals (whether twin clutch or not).

I'm willing to be proven wrong on this, but will require specific evidence -- what supercar do you think is using a traditional planetary gearbox automatic transmission?

...Paul

[zoomzoomers]

The Toyota LFA, Audi R8 V8. There are more, but I'm too lazy to do your work for you.

Z

[QUOTE=dotdotdotPaul;1221853]I don't think this is true.

The RX-8 with an automatic had 30hp less than the manual. The reason was because the redline on the automatic was at 7500rpm -- the limit a 'slushbox' could handle. The manual, on the other hand, redlined at 9000rpm.

The supercars with "automatics" these days are almost certainly automated manuals (whether twin clutch or not).

I'm willing to be proven wrong on this, but will require specific evidence -- what supercar do you think is using a traditional planetary gearbox automatic transmission?

...Paul[/QUOTE]

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

The Toyota LFA, Audi R8 V8. There are more, but I'm too lazy to do your work for you.

The Lexus (it's not marked as Toyota anywhere in the world, and Lexus is far more distinct from Toyota than Scion is) LFA uses a single clutch electrohydraulic transmission - no torque converter in sight. As for the Audi? I'm not sure about the older R-tronic transmission (which wasn't amazing, but I don't know exactly how it worked), but the new ones are either the S-tronic (double clutch, and much better than the old R-tronic) or manual. Once again, no torque converters here.

[zoomzoomers]

The fact of the matter is, and the answer to your question, there are still cars that are in the "super car" category that have non dual-clutch autos. This will probably change as they all progress into offering DCT type systems, but there're still there.

Originally Posted by chrisl

The Lexus (it's not marked as Toyota anywhere in the world, and Lexus is far more distinct from Toyota than Scion is) LFA uses a single clutch electrohydraulic transmission - no torque converter in sight. As for the Audi? I'm not sure about the older R-tronic transmission (which wasn't amazing, but I don't know exactly how it worked), but the new ones are either the S-tronic (double clutch, and much better than the old R-tronic) or manual. Once again, no torque converters here.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

The fact of the matter is, and the answer to your question, there are still cars that are in the "super car" category that have non dual-clutch autos. This will probably change as they all progress into offering DCT type systems, but there're still there.

The R8 only offers a dual clutch auto, and the fact that the LFA is a single clutch is irrelevant - it's as different from a torque converter auto as a DCT is. If anything, the LFA transmission is closer to the one used in the Pagani Huayra (also a single clutch sequential).

Now, there are still nice cars that have torque converter autos, but nothing up in the super car category - the ones still running torque converters are ones like the BMW 335, Lexus IS-F, and similar.

[zoomzoomers]

Not too argue with you, but now you're just changing your initial statement about super cars not using autos. You didn't say auto without torque converters, etc. With or without, torque converter, DCT or not, many supercars out there are autos. From the looks of it that's probably what they'll only be offered with in a few years. In either case, technology is changing there's not doubt about that.

Originally Posted by chrisl

The R8 only offers a dual clutch auto, and the fact that the LFA is a single clutch is irrelevant - it's as different from a torque converter auto as a DCT is. If anything, the LFA transmission is closer to the one used in the Pagani Huayra (also a single clutch sequential).

Now, there are still nice cars that have torque converter autos, but nothing up in the super car category - the ones still running torque converters are ones like the BMW 335, Lexus IS-F, and similar.

[Frstorm]

What about the gtr?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

Not too argue with you, but now you're just changing your initial statement about super cars not using autos. You didn't say auto without torque converters, etc. With or without, torque converter, DCT or not, many supercars out there are autos. From the looks of it that's probably what they'll only be offered with in a few years. In either case, technology is changing there's not doubt about that.

When did I ever say super cars don't ever use autos? If anything, most of them use autos (but pretty much universally dual or single clutch setups, not torque converters). Maybe you're confusing my statements with something said by someone else?

Oh, and Frstorm: the GTR is a dual clutch auto.

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by chrisl

When did I ever say super cars don't ever use autos? If anything, most of them use autos (but pretty much universally dual or single clutch setups, not torque converters). Maybe you're confusing my statements with something said by someone else?

Oh, and Frstorm: the GTR is a dual clutch auto.

Ok, my mistake I might have misread your post before. :happy0180:

[dotdotdotPaul]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

Not too argue with you, but now you're just changing your initial statement about super cars not using autos. You didn't say auto without torque converters, etc. With or without, torque converter, DCT or not, many supercars out there are autos. From the looks of it that's probably what they'll only be offered with in a few years. In either case, technology is changing there's not doubt about that.

Actually, it was my initial statement that supercars didn't use planetary gear automatics and said I was willing to be proven otherwise. You even quoted me.

You named the LFA and the R8, neither of which use a traditional slushbox (torque converter/planetary gears) system, as chrisl pointed out. They're "automated manuals".

I never claimed there were no automatics -- I specifically disputed the claim by Suberman that:

Originally Posted by Suberman

There are plenty of planetary transmissions in high end sportscars, depending on your definition.

None of the automated manuals are using planetary transmissions, to my knowledge.

...Paul

[Steve201brz]

Originally Posted by chickdigger802

Are there any large cons for the automatic besides the usual boohahaha between manual vs auto? Auto will still be a blast to wiggle around mountain roads right?

i can only speak for the BRZ. i'm new to this community and don't know the differences in options between FR-S and the BRZ, so for that i apologize.

if you were test driving the subaru, was it a premium or limited AT? was just curious because the dyptronic is worth considering for automatic drivers who want to maintain a DD

[jacktman]

If you want to shift the AT manually, you don't need to use the paddles. You just need to snick the lever forward for upshifts, and backward for downshifts. I didn't make this up - It shows this in the owner's manual. By using the shift lever, you don't have to search for the paddles when the steering wheel is turning. You also feel as if you are shifting a manual the usual way.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Steve201brz

if you were test driving the subaru, was it a premium or limited AT? was just curious because the dyptronic is worth considering for automatic drivers who want to maintain a DD

The what? The transmission is the same between the BRZ Premium and Limited...