Is going all catless on a na fa20 motor such a good idea?

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Noob4Life

No smog is only for cali registered vehicles. Doesnt apply to vehicles registered outside of cali. If somebody moves to cali from florida he has 1 year to get the car smog inspected and registered in cali.

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That makes it difficult for the cops or can they identify the plates easily to see the Cadillac Eldorado with the bull horns and open pipes is from Texas? They would still need to pull them over to check how long they've been in the state. That's also very frustrating for all the locals who have to comply with very restrictive regulations but see others driving something that's pumping out more emissions than the space shuttle taking off.

It will be much easier, fairer and better when there are blanket regulations for everyone, like most other countries.
We're lucky here in WA with no annual inspections but there's still the requirement to comply.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Exactly. That's why it sucks that we have to hobble our cars to solve a problem we don't have, as I said before. I wish cars were like bikes where they make a 49-state version separate from the gimped Cali model. Oh well... that's what the aftermarket is for

However bikes are not required to have cats (at least not in Canada)

[I1]

Originally Posted by sierra

According to this all the states come under the EPA.

United States emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It looks like you're in Australia, so I'll try to keep it basic without sounding like a snob or douche or anything.

I've seen the programs of you guys in the Everglades catching the crocs and believe me you don't look like snobs and i'll have no trouble with your complicated version.

Obviously you couldn't even comprehend my simple version, so I won't get complicated with you. I was honestly trying to be nice and explain things so you (since you're not an American, you may not know the finer details, and I wouldn't expect you to) could better understand why it's fine to run catless in some states. You decided to get ****y with me, so forget being nice. You're obviously too stupid to understand this concept of a difference in regulating original vehicle sales and regulating the continued use of said purchased vehicle. Go back to school, and please, for the sake of humanity, stay on your convict island.

[Seattle944t]

Originally Posted by Captain Insano

Thanks for your concern. It is not illegal where I live. And in the grand scheme of all the pollutants in this world if you think the catless 6000 miles I drive per year is gonna be the "straw that breaks the back" for our environment we are pretty well already fvcked, wouldn't you say?

Can we get back on topic please? I don't think this thread is about an environmental debate.

Sadly you are mistaken. Removing cats is 100% illegal in EVERY state in the United States. Your state may not have stricter emissions laws, but FEDERAL law still applies and it is a fine up to $2,500 for a consumer and $25,000 for businesses to remove cats from a street car. It is a violation of the EPA Clean Air Act http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf.

It is 100% wrong to say it's legal because it isn't legal anywhere in the US. You can say that 'my state doesn't test and I am unlikely to be caught'. You can't misinform everyone that it is legal.

[Seattle944t]

Originally Posted by sierra

Which states allow you to take a near new car, remove the emission control equipment and drive it legally?

None. All states must meet the minimum federal standards. They can exact stricter standards and enforcement than the federal level, but can't be lower than the federal mandates.

Originally Posted by Noob4Life

There are a few states with little to no emissions laws. Ohio and texas are a couple that I know of. Thats where you see alot of modified v8s running full straight pipes or exhaust dumps, engine swaps and 1000+hp bolt on turbo kits riding down public streets and not getting pulled over for it. Emissions equipment is there for the states with strict emissions such as CA, the non emissions states just see it as restrictive features they dont need yet are paying for anyways.

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Many states don't enact their own laws because the federal standards are good enough. That doesn't mean they have no emissions laws, they still all follow the federal level. They are just not stronger than the minimums.

Originally Posted by I1

No, it's not truly amazing at all. It's called economics. California has the strictest emissions laws since they're shooting for a socialist utopia, so vehicle manufacturers build to the strictest common denominator since it makes good business sense to do that than have 50 different builds, one for each state. Mass production, friend. So, with that in mind, why would someone like myself in Minnesota with no emissions laws to worry about be forced into sticking with those emission controls?

It looks like you're in Australia, so I'll try to keep it basic without sounding like a snob or douche or anything. We're a collection of states with each state regulating itself when dealing with business that is conducted in-state, while the federal government has ultimate jurisdiction to regulate business that happens between states. So if I live in Minnesota, and buy from a Minnesotan dealership, the feds don't get a say in the emission controls I have to use in my state. Now, it gets a little dicey when talking about federal gas mileage requirements for a car company, but that stuff still only pertains to allowing the distribution/sale of the vehicle, not the continued use of it.

I hope that somewhat clears things up as to American freedoms. Also, if you're worried about emissions and saving the planet, push for a switch to nukes or go bother China. Either way, good luck in your adventures, and quit trying to rain on other people's parade if they want to ditch their cats.

Originally Posted by I1

Obviously you couldn't even comprehend my simple version, so I won't get complicated with you. I was honestly trying to be nice and explain things so you (since you're not an American, you may not know the finer details, and I wouldn't expect you to) could better understand why it's fine to run catless in some states. You decided to get ****y with me, so forget being nice. You're obviously too stupid to understand this concept of a difference in regulating original vehicle sales and regulating the continued use of said purchased vehicle. Go back to school, and please, for the sake of humanity, stay on your convict island.

Except he was 100% right. Your state may not monitor/enforce stricter emissions laws, but all states must abide by the federal standards. So it is 100% illegal to remove cats in the United States, regardless of what state you are in.
You are just more likely to get caught and fined for not running them in some states more than others. You sir, are the one who doesn't understand even though you are an American.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by SkAsphalt

However bikes are not required to have cats (at least not in Canada)

they are here.

[SkAsphalt]

Originally Posted by jamesm

they are here.

I love this thread because I keep learning stuff

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Seattle944t

None. All states must meet the minimum federal standards. They can exact stricter standards and enforcement than the federal level, but can't be lower than the federal mandates.

Many states don't enact their own laws because the federal standards are good enough. That doesn't mean they have no emissions laws, they still all follow the federal level. They are just not stronger than the minimums.

Except he was 100% right. Your state may not monitor/enforce stricter emissions laws, but all states must abide by the federal standards. So it is 100% illegal to remove cats in the United States, regardless of what state you are in.
You are just more likely to get caught and fined for not running them in some states more than others. You sir, are the one who doesn't understand even though you are an American.

Thank you my friend.
You've restored my faith in the USA! As Judge Judy says, 'if it doesn't make sense then usually it's not true'.
We have a similar system to yours with a federal government and state governments so it just wasn't making sense.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by SkAsphalt

However bikes are not required to have cats (at least not in Canada)

Nor here.
I would love to have a small car running a bike engine and gearbox but they are illegal because of the laxer rules for the bikes emissions. I drool over the ones allowed on the streets in the UK but even with a cat they aren't allowed because the engines must all meet the complete car emission specs.

[I1]

Originally Posted by Seattle944t

Except he was 100% right. Your state may not monitor/enforce stricter emissions laws, but all states must abide by the federal standards. So it is 100% illegal to remove cats in the United States, regardless of what state you are in.
You are just more likely to get caught and fined for not running them in some states more than others. You sir, are the one who doesn't understand even though you are an American.

Well golly, that's odd. I've flipped a few cars from salvage to prior salvage, which requires a state inspection before titling. I'm straight up honest at inspections, and have been told multiple times "Not required" when catalytic converters are brought up. Three vehicles with known missing cats passed Minnesota state inspection, inspectors fully informed, and received titles.

So yes, it appears I would be wrong that on a federal level you shouldn't be pulling a cat, but at a state level I'm living proof that some states allow it.

[Bonks86]

Originally Posted by I1

Well golly, that's odd. I've flipped a few cars from salvage to prior salvage, which requires a state inspection before titling. I'm straight up honest at inspections, and have been told multiple times "Not required" when catalytic converters are brought up. Three vehicles with known missing cats passed Minnesota state inspection, inspectors fully informed, and received titles.

So yes, it appears I would be wrong that on a federal level you shouldn't be pulling a cat, but at a state level I'm living proof that some states allow it.

The thing is it is not exactly enforced. On a federal level, law enforcement isn't going after people without cats... they have other things to worry about. It may be against federal law, but the enforcement of in is basically non-existent. I am pretty sure Borla actually posted once quoting the law on it being illegal to replace a stock cat at all (federal law).

[I1]

Originally Posted by Bonks86

The thing is it is not exactly enforced. On a federal level, law enforcement isn't going after people without cats... they have other things to worry about. It may be against federal law, but the enforcement of in is basically non-existent. I am pretty sure Borla actually posted once quoting the law on it being illegal to replace a stock cat at all (federal law).

Fair enough. I'll settle for "Technically illegal, realistically allowed."

[Bonks86]

ahhh here we go...

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=60

[Captain Insano]

Originally Posted by I1

Fair enough. I'll settle for "Technically illegal, realistically allowed."

Exactly. Not enforced here whatsoever. Right or wrong.

Again people seem to only be interested in the legality of cats and the envirinment in this thread. Enjoy the discussion folks . I'm out.