Are you faster with traction control on or off?

[losjackal]

Luis_GT, and others who prefer to turn the nannies off for daily driving....would you similarly turn off ABS if you could?

[FRSfan111]

I can say that leaving it on at the track doesn't hurt you. I ran a 1.46 at PIR with it on. Ran the whole time on the edge of traction with out getting loose or traction control kicking in at all. During my first 2 sessions it was wet so If kicked in a lot as the stock tires are soft. But I'm sure it saved me from spinning out like several other cars did.

Video for reference
[ame]http://youtu.be/EuOE9re3Xyc[/ame]

Lets be honest, if u get sideways at the track you are loosing speed. So on or off won't change much if you are going for time. I do turn it off some times for fun in the rain.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by losjackal

Luis_GT, and others who prefer to turn the nannies off for daily driving....would you similarly turn off ABS if you could?

I have driven without ABS due to electrical faults, would I disable it if I had the option, probably not.

[fr3nch13]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

My last car ended up like this, so I leave mine on all the time. I don't another stupid mistake in a low traction scenario and I'd rather not repeat another wet slide/roll.

Hey, at least you were next to a call box. :-p

[fr3nch13]

Nice! That has to feel good to pass a Porsche.

[losjackal]

That's a cool overlay! How does that information get in the video?

Originally Posted by FRSfan111

Video for reference

Lets be honest, if u get sideways at the track you are loosing speed. So on or off won't change much if you are going for time.

Yes this is what I am wondering. These TC and VSC systems are designed to keep power applied from the wheels to the pavement, and the car pointed in the right direction. I don't understand from a physics perspective how that can be a bad thing.

Theoretically they help preserve you getting the fastest times. If you never lose control, they'll never kick in. If someone can explain to me how they clock physically slower times with these systems on, I'd like to understand.

[FRSfan111]

:happy0180:

Originally Posted by losjackal

That's a cool overlay! How does that information get in the video?



Yes this is what I am wondering. These TC and VSC systems are designed to keep power applied from the wheels to the pavement, and the car pointed in the right direction. I don't understand from a physics perspective how that can be a bad thing.

Theoretically they help preserve you getting the fastest times. If you never lose control, they'll never kick in. If someone can explain to me how they clock physically slower times with these systems on, I'd like to understand.

The video is from an app on my iPhone called Harry's lap timer. It uses internal sensor and GPS to record all the information then overlays it onto the video it records while driving. Obviously I had my iPhone mounted to my dash lol. Once the race is done select the run you want to watch. Them click the apply overlay option and in about 2 min ur video will be ready.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by losjackal

Yes this is what I am wondering. These TC and VSC systems are designed to keep power applied from the wheels to the pavement, and the car pointed in the right direction. I don't understand from a physics perspective how that can be a bad thing.

Theoretically they help preserve you getting the fastest times. If you never lose control, they'll never kick in. If someone can explain to me how they clock physically slower times with these systems on, I'd like to understand.

They don't only kick in when you lose control. If you are driving fast, you are utilizing a certain amount of slip angle in the tires, doesn't mean you are drifting or even "getting sideways". The system in our car doesn't really care what is the optimal slip angle. It sees slip and cuts power. All the power.

[losjackal]

Originally Posted by DylanFRS

The system in our car doesn't really care what is the optimal slip angle. It sees slip and cuts power. All the power.

Isn't this what the VSC Sport more is for though? It allow some slippage, but not spinning out?

P.S. What makes you say "all the power"? I would think some power is still required to keep the car on course.

[Luis_GT]

Originally Posted by losjackal

Isn't this what the VSC Sport more is for though? It allow some slippage, but not spinning out?

P.S. What makes you say "all the power"? I would think some power is still required to keep the car on course.

Whenever the car starts to "slip" it cuts all throttle from he engine, so you are left powerless and relies on brakes to adjust the cars direction.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by losjackal

Isn't this what the VSC Sport more is for though? It allow some slippage, but not spinning out?

P.S. What makes you say "all the power"? I would think some power is still required to keep the car on course.

Yes, that is what VSC Sport should do. Instead, it feels like a 12 year old is controlling the brakes and throttle via a Playstation controller.

I mean "all the power" as in you might as well be hitting a rev limiter, it pretty much just cuts fuel. Or at least that is how it seems to me. Regardless, I always turn off VSC and TC at the track.

Last race we had in the rain I thought I better leave VSC Sport on and shaved 3 seconds off my time when I decided to turn it all off. Was I faster without the aids? Definitely. Was I also much more likely to lose control and spin completely without the aids? Definitely. Which is why I leave them on for my daily commute. Spin at the track. No big deal, fix it on the next run. Spin entering a highway next to a mini-van full of kids....

[juliog]

Originally Posted by losjackal

If someone can explain to me how they clock physically slower times with these systems on, I'd like to understand.

Originally Posted by FRSfan111

Lets be honest, if u get sideways at the track you are losing speed.

Correct. However, technically you will be faster if you corner within a certain slip angle.

The ECU on the 86 has no idea what tires you are running or what the road conditions are. The driver has more information. Grippy tires , proper alignment and good pavement, the computer may think you're about to lose control (and apply brakes individually on each corner) way before you hit that ideal slip angle. Makes sense since on this car, TC and VSC are safety (not performance) features above all.



Also you get more traction (higher coefficient of friction) and therefore better acceleration when there's a small amount of wheel-spin, a.k.a. wheel-slip. TC systems don't like wheel-spin and will apply brakes for you, even on straightaways. Try to launch your car with TC on and then try it again with TC off. With some practice, you should clock faster 0-60 and 1/4 miles times when it's off.


http://www.hondata.com/help/traction..._operation.htm



Now, Nissan's ATTESA , Mitsubishi's AYC and Porsche's latest stuff (TPV, rear axle steering..)... those systems are way more advanced and designed for performance, making the cars faster in the majority of cases

[FRSfan111]

Originally Posted by juliog

Correct. However, technically you will be faster if you corner within a certain slip angle.

The ECU on the 86 has no idea what tires you are running or what the road conditions are. The driver has more information. Grippy tires , proper alignment and good pavement, the computer may think you're about to lose control (and apply brakes individually on each corner) way before you hit that ideal slip angle. Makes sense since on this car, TC and VSC are safety (not performance) features above all.



Also you get more traction (higher coefficient of friction) and therefore better acceleration when there's a small amount of wheel-spin, a.k.a. wheel-slip. TC systems don't like wheel-spin and will apply brakes for you, even on straightaways. Try to launch your car with TC on and then try it again with TC off. With some practice, you should clock faster 0-60 and 1/4 miles times when it's off.


http://www.hondata.com/help/traction..._operation.htm



Now, Nissan's ATTESA , Mitsubishi's AYC and Porsche's latest stuff (TPV, rear axle steering..)... those systems are way more advanced and designed for performance, making the cars faster in the majority of cases

I understand what ur saying and don't disagree at all. However my time on the track has not required me to turn it off. My TC definitely hinders my 1/4mile and so as you stated I don't use it when I'm trying to launch. Interestingly enough through DDing my car I've been able to on several occasions launch my car at just the right rpm to chirp the tires then roll on the gas aggressively with out activating my traction control.

Also through both my track days my tc never went off even with my tires squealing through all the corners. On the street when I don't have as much room to apex it is verry intrusive though. Idk if its the difference in the apex that helps on the track or what. My car is a first 86 so it's older then almost every car on this forum but I can't imagine that it's malfunctioning since it kicked in a lot during my first 2 sessions when it was raining on Friday.

But for what ever reason it was just not kicking in at all my last 2 sessions when it was dry and I'm not mad about it lol.

[NIKOLA]

I try to keep my traction control off, but it comes on automatically after travelling a short distance down the road. How are any of you keeping traction control off all of the time?