Best handling car?

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by ZDan

In my experience in dozens of cars at the track, I find that FR cars like the 240Z, 240SX, FD, S2000 handle remarkably similarly (with the notable exception of the AP1, due to rear toe shenanigans), and QUITE differently from more forward-biased awd cars.

Wishbones are great and all, but struts are often severely underrated if not discounted out of hand. For sure my 240Z will outhandle rings around (inside?) my S2000 and FD! Once sorted, struts don't hurt that car's handling performance much if at all, and the feel is *VERY* much classic cab-rearward FR just like the AP2 and FD (again, AP1 is a special, weird case). WAY different handling feel from the STi, that's for sure!

For a road car struts all around can be made to work perfectly. Colin Chapman proved this with his first Elite in 1959 was it?

The last generation Cayman proves this is still true today.

Not to say double wishbone isn't also perfect but it isn't necessarily any better than a strut.

If you want full adjustability for geometry then double wishbones are the way to go, though with camber plates the strut still work fine.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I'd put a lot of money on it, actually. The miata isn't bad, but it isn't anything near as good as a Cayman, in my opinion, and it's not just the power. The feel, the stability at speed, the quickness of turn-in, and the ability to place it exactly where you want in a corner every time all favor the Cayman over the Miata (in my opinion). I haven't driven a 95 miata, admittedly, but I have driven a more recent miata, and it isn't as good all around as my Cayman is, even ignoring straight line performance (and honestly, if a Miata were as good as a Cayman in every way except power, I wouldn't own a Cayman right now). From what I've heard, I'd expect an S2000 to beat it as well (but I haven't driven one), and a Lotus Elise would be excellent with a Miata's power to weight ratio as well.


Out of curiosity, have you ever driven a Cayman or Lotus?

Fit the same power to both and the Cayman outdrives a 911, any 911. No Miata built could keep up.

Lotus is a special case as they are tiny and inaccessible to the aged among us...

I can still get out of a Cayman, just. The BRZ is even more accessible despite its snake gonads C of G.

[SVTSHC]

Out of that line-up I'd say it's a toss up between the RX8 and Cayman, but the twins are very close behind.

[zohaib]

AW11

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I've timed myself at our local twisty (I'm pretty sure you know which one)... the GT-R is still faster.

Don't believe everything you see on Initial-D :p

Yes, that Cayman will still be faster. Power levels are low enough that power is primarily the limiting factor, even on the tightest, slowest courses. I've done something similar; we artificially restricted a S2k to about 160hp and ran it against a Miata. It lost less than 1.5 seconds at Buttonwillow.

I don't watch Initial-D, and I don't believe a 160hps S2K only lost 1.5 seconds on BW. I'm talking crank HP so that about 130HPS to the wheels even then he still has better power to weight ratio. 150 crank power on the S2K is closer to power weight ratio of the NA MX-5. Also what were the specs on miata?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I don't watch Initial-D, and I don't believe a 160hps S2K only lost 1.5 seconds on BW. I'm talking crank HP so that about 130HPS to the wheels even then he still has better power to weight ratio. 150 crank power on the S2K is closer to power weight ratio of the NA MX-5. Also what were the specs on miata?

I am too.

I put on a rev limit of 6k and ran BW 13CW and did a 2:03 in my s2k. Non-staggered tires. Otherwise, stock.

6k RPM = 160 crank hp.

Don't forget s2k still has MASSIVELY more mechanical multiplication through gears.

[CSG Mike]

Fawk my photobucket is out of bandwidth. wtf.

[solidONE]

You're crazy... Who drove the miata?

[CSG Mike]

Doesn't matter... still faster than Spec Miata record... which has a tire/weight AND tire compound advantage.

[Jaylyons1]

Originally Posted by fatoni

youre going to have to define hanlding. also the gtr is a six figure car

MSRP is $99,950 so they still meet the mark. They can easily be purchased new for under $90k though.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Doesn't matter... still faster than Spec Miata record... which has a tire/weight AND tire compound advantage.

BW is not exactly the tightest track around, is it? I reject your reality and substitute with my own where Miata goes faster than Ferrari.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I'd put a lot of money on it, actually. The miata isn't bad, but it isn't anything near as good as a Cayman, in my opinion, and it's not just the power. The feel, the stability at speed, the quickness of turn-in, and the ability to place it exactly where you want in a corner every time all favor the Cayman over the Miata (in my opinion). I haven't driven a 95 miata, admittedly, but I have driven a more recent miata, and it isn't as good all around as my Cayman is, even ignoring straight line performance (and honestly, if a Miata were as good as a Cayman in every way except power, I wouldn't own a Cayman right now). From what I've heard, I'd expect an S2000 to beat it as well (but I haven't driven one), and a Lotus Elise would be excellent with a Miata's power to weight ratio as well.


Out of curiosity, have you ever driven a Cayman or Lotus?

I have driven s2000s ap1 ap2, cayman s, rx8, miata na nb, and obviously a FR-s. in my opinion, the 95 r pkg miata is the best handling car I've experienced. I've not driven any of the lotus or atom, or even the new nc miata. From what I understand the elise is simply a optimized 'miata' by lotus.The s2000 is honda's iteration of the 'miata car'. I've also heard that the new miata has very 'mushy' suspension.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I have driven s2000s ap1 ap2, cayman s, rx8, miata na nb, and obviously a FR-s. in my opinion, the 95 r pkg miata is the best handling car I've experienced. I've not driven any of the lotus or atom, or even the new nc miata. From what I understand the elise is simply a optimized 'miata' by lotus.The s2000 is honda's iteration of the 'miata car'. I've also heard that the new miata has very 'mushy' suspension.

You haven't REALLY driven the S2k until you can throttle steer the car. A Miata is simply a "WOT around every corner" car. Easy when you don't have much hp. Replicate that with the FR-S, or S2k; it can be do ne.

[solidONE]

Working on it. You going to auto club with extreme speed? I may go for practice before the November date.