Best handling car?

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

With proper tires I bet the FRS/BRZ actually would outhandle the Cayman.

Out of curiosity, why do you think that? Personally I don't agree with that at all.

Out of this list I would arrange them this way:
Cayman/Boxster
Elise/Exige
RX7?
RX8?
S2000?
BRZ/FRS?
Evo X?
M3?

I would add:
Mustang Boss 302
C7 Corvette Stingray

I would remove:
GTR? - costs over $100k
WRX STI? - seriously, this isn't as great of a handling car as you think

The new Corvette is getting rave reviews. And this time those reviews are raving not just about the car's performance, but also about how easy it is to drive the car and how connected to the road the driver feels. We finally have a Corvette that is the complete package and can compete with Porsche in not just performance but also driving feel, driver position and interior refinement.

Someone made a comment about which would you choose, a $25k BRZ or a $35k S2000. Can we pleeeeeease stop typing nonsense like this? Outside of the S2000's initial release in 2000 nobody paid MSRP for these cars. You could easily get it for several thousand less. A more fair statement would be comparing a $27k BRZ to a $31-32k S2000 (new to new).

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

With proper tires I bet the FRS/BRZ actually would outhandle the Cayman.

Having driven both I'd say not. The Cayman has a mid engine after all.

Having driven both I can assure you that the BRZ is a lot more fun to drive.

The tires on the BRZ are basically for kids to drive on. The grip available is just insufficient to match the suspension dynamics so the rear of the car steps out far too easily.

That makes it really fun to drive until you realize that's a pretty slow way to drive, then you fit a set of proper tires.

I expect my BRZ to handle much better on a set of Pirelli P Zero Sottozero winter tires which must go on before it snows here. Probably before Sept 15!

I predict a buyer's market for plus two upgrades to our local Prius owners.

[Be-Are-Zee]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Out of curiosity, why do you think that? Personally I don't agree with that at all.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two given the price difference.

Does the BRZ has good handling? Absolutely. Is it the best? Nope. Does it out handle 90% of the cars on the road? Probably.

Cars I've driven more than 1,000 miles in order of top handling to worst.

2009 RX-8 R3
2009 RX-8 GT
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited
2007 Mazda RX-8 GT Automatic
2014 BMW X1 M-Sport on Summer Performance tires.
2014 Mazda CX-5 Touring
2008 Saturn Sky Red Line
2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0T

And the list gets worse and worse from here with a few other SUVs.

This is just based on my experience with driving these vehicles for at least 1,000 miles.

[Be-Are-Zee]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Out of curiosity, why do you think that? Personally I don't agree with that at all.



Someone made a comment about which would you choose, a $25k BRZ or a $35k S2000. Can we pleeeeeease stop typing nonsense like this? Outside of the S2000's initial release in 2000 nobody paid MSRP for these cars. You could easily get it for several thousand less. A more fair statement would be comparing a $27k BRZ to a $31-32k S2000 (new to new).

Agreed.

By the same accord you could compare a new BRZ 27k to a new R3 at 24k in 2009/10. Mazda heavily discounted them due to poor sales.

[WolfpackS2k]

^^^

Nice reply. I partially agree. I've driven both cars hard and at 8/10ths or so (since public roads) and the Cayman definitely handles better. And given equal tires I still think it would handle better. However, I also think the Cayman S is more fun to drive.

-faster acceleration
-superior exhaust note (stock or modified)
-engine screaming at you from over your shoulder

I disagree with people that say the Cayman S's performance is "not accessible enough" on the road. We're still only talking about a 325 hp car. It's performance is definitely accessible - in my opinion at least, since it's a somewhat subjective statement

[Be-Are-Zee]

Interesting topic by the OP for sure.

Replies just show you how subjective handling is.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by Suberman

Street car, you can drive a Cayman year round in any weather. Ditto the BRZ. You cannot keep a GT3 on the road in winter and it rides like a race car. The Ferrari 458 isn't a year round driver either, its a weekend car. Neither carries any luggage.

If you want a better handling car buy a Red Bull.

I daily a 458 italia, it's nothing but a joy. The car acts like a normal car, comfy and is easy to get in and out of.

Regarding luggage ? Yeah you can't fit huge bags in it but can make trips and drives with some if you want to.
I carry food, and shit load of random things around in it and never worry.
Here's an example of the front compartment and I was cleaning the fabric as some sticky sugar syrup spilled from dessert

[DarkSunrise]

This question is probably beyond the scope of anyone to answer objectively on this forum for a couple of reasons:

1) You really need to put the cars on equal tires (e.g., the RX-7's OEM tires are 20 years old now and tire technology improves fast; FR-S/BRZ comes with AS/summer touring tires; Elises and Evo X's come with very aggressive street tires). I doubt anyone has tested all of these cars on equalized tires.

2) You need to test these cars in various settings -- track, street, skidpad, slalom, etc. Not many people have this depth of experience in all of these cars.

3) You need equipment to objectively measure certain attributes such as steering response, feedback, body roll, bump compliance, etc.

This is why, when you see magazines do "best handling" comparisons, they often bring in pros with proper equipment to remove some of the subjectivity from these kinds of comparison. Short of that, I would listen to the opinion of anyone who's tracked all of these cars extensively and know how they feel at the limit.

[WolfpackS2k]

Yeah good point. And since the Twins have been out for over a year now I say it's high time for Car and Driver to do another "Best Handling" issue!

Going back a few comments, who said the 911 GT3 "can't carry any luggage"? Are you kidding me? You can fit A LOT in a 911.

[gt8613]

wtf is a woman going to do with a R3!!!!!!!!!!

!@#$%^ woman

Originally Posted by Be-Are-Zee

Fuel economy sure but your other issues are more of a perceived issue than a real one.

I added half a quart of oil every 1,000 miles between changes.

I never flooded any of my 8's or had any issues. They never saw a mechanic.

FYI I owned an 07 auto and traded it in for an 09 R3. Lost that in a divorce and bought a 09 GT a year later.

The R3 was the best car I've ever driven and the most fun. The BRZ is a very close 2nd but its not as easy to drive at high speeds nor does it have the amazing whir at 9,000 rpms. I also found the transmission of the 8 to be a little more forgiving and I was never afraid of clutch dumps.

The fuel economy of the BRZ keeps it in the game as a real DD.

[gt8613]

What? & I thought that anyone who owned a 458 italia simply had a "bloke"in a cargo van follow them everywhere!

Originally Posted by SmsAlSuwaidi

I daily a 458 italia, it's nothing but a joy. The car acts like a normal car, comfy and is easy to get in and out of.

Regarding luggage ? Yeah you can't fit huge bags in it but can make trips and drives with some if you want to.
I carry food, and shit load of random things around in it and never worry.
Here's an example of the front compartment and I was cleaning the fabric as some sticky sugar syrup spilled from dessert

[CSG Mike]

First off, we need to define "best handling".

Is it the highest cornering speed? Corner entry speed? Corner exit speed? Steering response? Stock trim only? How the car subjectively "feels"? Are we equalizing tire compounds? Sizes?

A last generation Viper ACR will decimate in more or less ALL of the above categories except perhaps subjective feel...

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

This question is probably beyond the scope of anyone to answer objectively on this forum for a couple of reasons:

1) You really need to put the cars on equal tires (e.g., the RX-7's OEM tires are 20 years old now and tire technology improves fast; FR-S/BRZ comes with AS/summer touring tires; Elises and Evo X's come with very aggressive street tires). I doubt anyone has tested all of these cars on equalized tires.

2) You need to test these cars in various settings -- track, street, skidpad, slalom, etc. Not many people have this depth of experience in all of these cars.

3) You need equipment to objectively measure certain attributes such as steering response, feedback, body roll, bump compliance, etc.

This is why, when you see magazines do "best handling" comparisons, they often bring in pros with proper equipment to remove some of the subjectivity from these kinds of comparison. Short of that, I would listen to the opinion of anyone who's tracked all of these cars extensively and know how they feel at the limit.

I've tested most of these on more or less equalized tires

[DarkSunrise]

^^^
LOL why am I not surprised? You were one of the few people on this board who I thought might be the exception actually.

[EAGLE5]

That's a lot of oil burning. I think you not having engine nor flooding issues puts you in the minority. Last I checked on Craigslist, there were several RX8s for sale with new engines. That all said, I think the RX8 is a fantastic car to drive. I would not throw one out of my garage.

However, the frs takes the same spot in an automotive stable. My next personal car purchase will likely be a Vette or similarly powered car. C5 Z6, modded 135i, Evo, etc.

Originally Posted by Be-Are-Zee

Fuel economy sure but your other issues are more of a perceived issue than a real one.

I added half a quart of oil every 1,000 miles between changes.

I never flooded any of my 8's or had any issues. They never saw a mechanic.

FYI I owned an 07 auto and traded it in for an 09 R3. Lost that in a divorce and bought a 09 GT a year later.

The R3 was the best car I've ever driven and the most fun. The BRZ is a very close 2nd but its not as easy to drive at high speeds nor does it have the amazing whir at 9,000 rpms. I also found the transmission of the 8 to be a little more forgiving and I was never afraid of clutch dumps.

The fuel economy of the BRZ keeps it in the game as a real DD.