Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Unless you have a waste gated supercharger running higher boost then what you want so it cuts you off at say 9psi that it hits at around 4k rpm, after the waste gate starts opening the back pressure on the supercharger lightens increasing mpg compared to running the supercharger without a waste gate, it also allows the ability to run boost by gear and also an actual flexfuel setup...

All the perks of a turbo with out the spool up time.

I may know someone who's doing this ass soon as he makes his fat ass fit back into his 32" jeans.

There has been alot of talk about altitude/turbo/mech superchargers.... lets try and keep that out of this thread to keep things a little more in focus.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by fenton

Now everyone else go out in their FRS or BRZ either NA or supercharged and tell me how close you are to a 135i with full exhaust.

I tell you, its miles away. I raced him stock before i got the system and i was 20 car lengths away after 2 gears. It was just destruction.

I'm interested in seeing what the vortech boys can do. So far I haven't seen any comparison.

If you're interested in how the Vortech compares, wouldn't it make more sense to compare something that can be measured accurately and quantifiably, like a dyno, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times?

[brillo]

Originally Posted by fenton

1. 80 percent throttle is 80 percent to the floor.... which is = to 100% throttle body open. So you can basically drive the car Full throttle NA and then push the throttle 10% more(past the switch) and get the supercharged power. It has never kicked in when i didnt want to it. When i want to pass someone i go WOT and it engages instantly.

2. It isnt just going wot under 3000 rpm. If you go wot in 4th to 6th gear between 3000 and 4000 the CEL will come on indicating MAP out of range or something like that. If you gun it at 1000 rpm(dont know why you would do this) it will go very rich and probably bog. In first gear you are out of that range within seconds..... even after you feather the clutch to get going you usually are at 2000 and it works just fine.

The one thing that i found was i had a crap start once and bogged it(almost stalled) and then went full thorttle to try and get up to speed and it just kind of bucked and bogged. You have to think of it this way, almost no other form of Forced induction can give 4 to 5 psi of boost(sans PD) at 1000 rpm..... there is so much load on the engine at that RPM that it pushes the ECU outside of its known fuel and load tables resulting in rich AFR.

It really isnt a problem at all, only ran into it once as i mentioned.

3. For the dyno on the stock tune we just started at 3200 rpm and it recorded the run fine. It still gets a CEL but the run produced safe AFR's and good power.

Once we tuned we were starting at about 2300 RPM and it has happy to do that all day long without throwing a code. I really recommend a tune for this product.

Hope that helps, keep the questions coming, im the Guinea pig and have had the system for over 5000km now!

Thanks for the input. So if your going to gun it from a dead stop then I'm guessing you'd get rolling so to speak for a moment and then foot to the floor? I'm trying to understand the best technique for utilizing the power from a stop without bogging or throughing a code.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

If you're interested in how the Vortech compares, wouldn't it make more sense to compare something that can be measured accurately and quantifiably, like a dyno, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times?

Well dyno is easy to compare but 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are greatly affected by altitude, all the vortech guys i see that have posted are at sea level.

IF there was a Vortech guy here in Calgary then ya, that would be gravy.

And what i really meant was i would like to see how a vortech super would do against a 135i or something like that. So far there are no comparison video's online for anything yet. The Vortech shouldnt even be compared to this its over 3 times the price. This is for someone that wants a little more power but nothing crazy

Would love to do a vortech at 2500-3000 rpm 3rd gear roll.

Here is a dyno, same dyno, same dyno operator. Vortech 9psi kit. This shows boost and torque.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by xjohnx

If you're interested in how the Vortech compares, wouldn't it make more sense to compare something that can be measured accurately and quantifiably, like a dyno, 0-60 and 1/4 mile times?

So far best i got in Torque app was 14.6s at 97.5mph but i dont know how accurate those apps are

[Trashed675]

Originally Posted by fenton

So far best i got in Torque app was 14.6s at 97.5mph but i dont know how accurate those apps are

I think when motor trend tested a stock frs it was high 14's at about 95mph. Considering thats with a very good driver in ideal conditions, and you were just using torque(once said i made 300hp ) your numbers look about right. A low 14 should be pretty easy.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Ingen

It is my understanding that this would cook your batteries pretty quickly, thus the entire point of a WOT switch - intermittent power to the motor, with time in between for the alternator to recharge the batteries. If you want to run it all the time it truly is more efficient to run it with a belt drive a la vortech than it is to involve the losses and inefficiencies of the alternator, and the charging circuit, and the wire leads from both, and the motor.

If you run only the drag reduction it can run 100 percent of the time off the batteries. Its only going to add 10 or 15 HP more but the batteries are big enough and current draw is low enough that they could never be depleted.

If you dont want the full power just go 70% throttle instead of >80%...... and trust me after a day with the charger this is very easy to do.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Trashed675

I think when motor trend tested a stock frs it was high 14's at about 95mph. Considering thats with a very good driver in ideal conditions, and you were just using torque(once said i made 300hp ) your numbers look about right. A low 14 should be pretty easy.

Yes that is definetly due in part to the altitude. When i did my stock ones i was getting 16 seconds at my altitude.

Those guys that tested it a mile up got a 10.3 0-60 but their launch and shifting was atrotious! Not to mention two.... larger gentlemen.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an7LP4GjWhg"]2013 Subaru BRZ vs Scion FR-S 0-60 MPH Mile High Mashup Review - YouTube[/ame]

[Trashed675]

Originally Posted by fenton

Yes that is definetly due in part to the altitude. When i did my stock ones i was getting 16 seconds at my altitude.

Those guys that tested it a mile up got a 10.3 0-60 but their launch and shifting was atrotious! Not to mention two.... larger gentlemen.

Yeah i was kind of annoyed with that review. Two fatties, high altitude, automatic....duh

[fenton]

UPDATE

Post number 5 updated with BMW 135i Race video's.

1 - First gear pull - BMW 135i with full exhaust
3 - FRS 2nd gear, BMW 3rd gear

Thanks!

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by fenton

Well dyno is easy to compare but 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are greatly affected by altitude, all the vortech guys i see that have posted are at sea level.

IF there was a Vortech guy here in Calgary then ya, that would be gravy.

And what i really meant was i would like to see how a vortech super would do against a 135i or something like that. So far there are no comparison video's online for anything yet. The Vortech shouldnt even be compared to this its over 3 times the price. This is for someone that wants a little more power but nothing crazy

Would love to do a vortech at 2500-3000 rpm 3rd gear roll.

Here is a dyno, same dyno, same dyno operator. Vortech 9psi kit. This shows boost and torque.

Kinda knit picky off you... Kinda like saying humans should move to the sun to sustain our population, it's ALOT bigger.

Having said that posting a boost map and torque then comparing them makes no sense in an actual debate, you showed that a centri supercharger that doesn't hit full boost til red line has less torque then a echarger that hits full boost at 1k, honestly if your trying to prove how good and simple this charger is you should compare it to a turbo(which the design is modeled after, no boost till spool up is done where a charger is always midspool. Doesn't matter how long it takes you to spool up, it's still considered turbo lag.)

Just saying that if your gonna compare charts use torque and HP, the boost just shows where the torque is coming from.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed with this system, but fact manipulation is just that... Like comparing a bullet to a rocket ship.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Kinda knit picky off you... Kinda like saying humans should move to the sun to sustain our population, it's ALOT bigger.

Having said that posting a boost map and torque then comparing them makes no sense in an actual debate, you showed that a centri supercharger that doesn't hit full boost til red line has less torque then a echarger that hits full boost at 1k, honestly if your trying to prove how good and simple this charger is you should compare it to a turbo(which the design is modeled after, no boost till spool up is done where a charger is always midspool. Doesn't matter how long it takes you to spool up, it's still considered turbo lag.)

Just saying that if your gonna compare charts use torque and HP, the boost just shows where the torque is coming from.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very impressed with this system, but fact manipulation is just that... Like comparing a bullet to a rocket ship.

Okay you are completely missing the point. Somebody asked for a DYNO and i posted the only one i have with both echarger and vortech.

Im not debating or trying to prove anything.... simply answering the questions people are asking.

If i had HP and torque i would have posted it This graph shows the difference in torque produced by different boost levels. You can see where the torque crosses between the two cars and their releative boost at that torque level. It shows how much parasitic loss the compressor on the Vortech has and what the 9 psi gets you in torque compared to the echargers 1.3psi at redline.

Its honestly purely for fun and discussion. The vortech is a full FI system that is very well designed and well built. This system is for the others that either cant afford the vortech or just want a little more fun out of their 25000 dollar car

[Ingen]

Originally Posted by fenton

If you run only the drag reduction it can run 100 percent of the time off the batteries. Its only going to add 10 or 15 HP more but the batteries are big enough and current draw is low enough that they could never be depleted.

If you dont want the full power just go 70% throttle instead of >80%...... and trust me after a day with the charger this is very easy to do.

Maybe you know enough about the car to tell me why this is: it seems like I get pretty much full power on my car at about 50% throttle and the response doesn't seem to change much past there, even though a scan tool will show the increasing percent throttle. I usually drive with very little pedal movement and almost never floor it except for autocross, during which I don't really feel like I am getting more power or pull than I do at 50% on the street.

Is the car fiddling with throttle sensitivity based on my daily inputs or something?

[SloS14]

Originally Posted by Ingen

Maybe you know enough about the car to tell me why this is: it seems like I get pretty much full power on my car at about 50% throttle and the response doesn't seem to change much past there, even though a scan tool will show the increasing percent throttle. I usually drive with very little pedal movement and almost never floor it except for autocross, during which I don't really feel like I am getting more power or pull than I do at 50% on the street.

Is the car fiddling with throttle sensitivity based on my daily inputs or something?