FA20Club questions

[Ross]

On pump gas around 10 psi from the dyno plots I have seen with the Fa20club kit the car will be a blast to drive. I would recommend getting used to it at that power level and slowly get the support parts together you will need for more power. Things like larger tires, lager wheels, brakes, suspension, ect..., the list can go on for ever. People get a number stuck in there head and that is the worst thing you can do, never chase a number, it will make what it makes as long as it is with in its safe parameters you should be good. Good luck in your decision and I hope you enjoy your new found power with a turbo.

[FA20Club.com]

seems you guys have this covered its easier just to email or pm me instead of tagging me into a thread i rarely look at tagged threads with all the other things i do daily.

[Ny Brz]

Originally Posted by Ross

On pump gas around 10 psi from the dyno plots I have seen with the Fa20club kit the car will be a blast to drive. I would recommend getting used to it at that power level and slowly get the support parts together you will need for more power. Things like larger tires, lager wheels, brakes, suspension, ect..., the list can go on for ever. People get a number stuck in there head and that is the worst thing you can do, never chase a number, it will make what it makes as long as it is with in its safe parameters you should be good. Good luck in your decision and I hope you enjoy your new found power with a turbo.

Totally agree, often people just want to focus on HP. For this season my main goal is to make sure the car is running fine, if i would have to fixate on a number maybe 250-265whp. Next season with correct supporting mods who knows.

[djliquidsteele]

I'm taking a guess that I'm sitting around 200hp at the wheels with E85 and exhaust and drop in filter. Another 130hp in this car would be mind boggling and safe. Torque is the killer guys. Clutches are necessary around 280lbs of torque. Internals, no one knows what the limits of the internals are yet so its crazy to say that at some arbitrary hp number you need a built motor.

I'm no engineer or builder or anything, but my guess is because our engines are such high compression you get to a point you might want to think about putting lower compression pistons in if you want to go higher. Thats no to say the stock pistons can't handle it higher horsepower, just that 12.5:1 you start running into detonation problems at some point and have to lower the compression. What this is, no one knows. Those that may know aren't sharing because its their intellectual property and a means for them to make money.

Long story short, this is a new engine design, even at just over a year old, and very few people know what its limits are. Cooling seems to be more of a struggle for track cars than the innability to make more power.

[Dezoris]

Safe is having at least half the owners of the car at over 60k miles to know what issues are going to pop up before increasing power output numbers by over 60% to the wheels.

I get all these messages and comments how I should have gone for 300+ WHP.

You guys running all this boost, crazy timing and high HP on daily drivers have a lot of balls on a motor/trans with no long term data and from two companies who can't get parts to the local dealers in less than 30 days.

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Safe is having at least half the owners of the car at over 60k miles to know what issues are going to pop up before increasing power output numbers by over 60% to the wheels.

I get all these messages and comments how I should have gone for 300+ WHP.

You guys running all this boost, crazy timing and high HP on daily drivers have a lot of balls on a motor/trans with no long term data and from two companies who can't get parts to the local dealers in less than 30 days.

been 90 days so far for me

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Safe is having at least half the owners of the car at over 60k miles to know what issues are going to pop up before increasing power output numbers by over 60% to the wheels.

I get all these messages and comments how I should have gone for 300+ WHP.

You guys running all this boost, crazy timing and high HP on daily drivers have a lot of balls on a motor/trans with no long term data and from two companies who can't get parts to the local dealers in less than 30 days.

That's the fun I'm crazy ahaha but at the same time have another car if something bad happens but I think I have proven the car can handle a
Good beating!!!

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

You guys running all this boost, crazy timing and high HP on daily drivers have a lot of balls on a motor/trans with no long term data and from two companies who can't get parts to the local dealers in less than 30 days.

[jamesm]

Ill know what my car makes Tuesday when we finish tuning on the dyno, but I'm guessing around 240-260whp now @7psi. I figure 300-350whp is safe enough long term. It really all depends on the tune and how you drive it.

Really, and it may sound kind of elitist, but you gotta pay to play. If you can't afford to rebuild the engine, then you can't afford to turbocharge a year 1 car with 12.5:1 compression lol. It's all part of the total cost of doing this type of thing. If/when my engine goes ill build it stronger. That's the fun part. incremental improvement, pushing limits, seeing what breaks and solving problems.

If I wanted a car that made 350whp that I could drive 100k miles without touching I'd have bought an m3, but there is no fun in that. I costs money to build a turbo 86 and deal with any necessitated supporting stuff or repairs. We don't know how much money that will be yet. So, basically, expect to build the motor at some point, and if you can't afford to, don't turbo it.

[regal]

Originally Posted by jamesm

costs money to build a turbo 86 and deal with any necessitated supporting stuff or repairs. We don't know how much money that will be yet. So, basically, expect to build the motor at some point, and if you can't afford to, don't turbo it.

Problem is we don't really know what a "built" FA20 looks like. Certainly takes more than low comp. forged pistons.

The bent "offset" rods that Subaru resorted to for ease of assembly load the rod bearings much more than previous boxers. I don't know that even the most experienced subaru engine builders have figured out this engine.

Sure a guy can build a 500hp FA20 that lasts a few thousand miles but we have a long way to go before it makes economical sense to open the short block. Especially without the DI heads figured out. That said without pioneers who can afford to "pay to play" we won't learn from mistakes.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by regal

Problem is we don't really know what a "built" FA20 looks like. Certainly takes more than low comp. forged pistons.

The bent "offset" rods that Subaru resorted to for ease of assembly load the rod bearings much more than previous boxers. I don't know that even the most experienced subaru engine builders have figured out this engine.

Sure a guy can build a 500hp FA20 that lasts a few thousand miles but we have a long way to go before it makes economical sense to open the short block. Especially without the DI heads figured out. That said without pioneers who can afford to "pay to play" we won't learn from mistakes.

For sure. Rev works will be doing my engine build when the time comes. I trust they'll get it right, but if something unforeseen happens that's part of the process. There are risks involved. I guess my point is that you have to budget for that sorta stuff. A turbo kit costs $5000. Owning one costs double or triple that lol.

[mike the snake]

Maybe low compression pistons and a good set of rods? Unless one plans to rev past the present redline, what else would be needed?

Originally Posted by regal

Problem is we don't really know what a "built" FA20 looks like. Certainly takes more than low comp. forged pistons.

The bent "offset" rods that Subaru resorted to for ease of assembly load the rod bearings much more than previous boxers. I don't know that even the most experienced subaru engine builders have figured out this engine.

Sure a guy can build a 500hp FA20 that lasts a few thousand miles but we have a long way to go before it makes economical sense to open the short block. Especially without the DI heads figured out. That said without pioneers who can afford to "pay to play" we won't learn from mistakes.

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Maybe low compression pistons and a good set of rods? Unless one plans to rev past the present redline, what else would be needed?

case and head studs and thats about it. unless you plan on doing north of 500hp then some fuel system changes and maybe sleeve the cylinders

[Frs300]

Originally Posted by jamesm

Ill know what my car makes Tuesday when we finish tuning on the dyno, but I'm guessing around 240-260whp now @7psi. I figure 300-350whp is safe enough long term. It really all depends on the tune and how you drive it.

Really, and it may sound kind of elitist, but you gotta pay to play. If you can't afford to rebuild the engine, then you can't afford to turbocharge a year 1 car with 12.5:1 compression lol. It's all part of the total cost of doing this type of thing. If/when my engine goes ill build it stronger. That's the fun part. incremental improvement, pushing limits, seeing what breaks and solving problems.

If I wanted a car that made 350whp that I could drive 100k miles without touching I'd have bought an m3, but there is no fun in that. I costs money to build a turbo 86 and deal with any necessitated supporting stuff or repairs. We don't know how much money that will be yet. So, basically, expect to build the motor at some point, and if you can't afford to, don't turbo it.

i guess i paid big time