100% DI Failure with Nurburgring rentals

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

What? Are you saying that because he runs 20 psi of boost, had the crank bearing fail.. That he doesn't shift too fast at redline or hasn't done anything to cause detonation or DI seal failure? Sounds like he's running his car hard like the rest of us.. Much worse actually and has no issues with the injectors.
Or maybe he just babies his car with all that boost and keeps it under 4k rpms..
I highly doubt it.

Exactly the point I was trying to make, thank you ! No the car does not get babied and the heads and injectors are and were under a lot more stress for possible failure than OEM,....somewhere in this thread someone mentions no one has pulled the DI's from an engine with a non failure, well I have and they are fine.I think this is only a few cars and its getting blown out of proportion and scaring people. If your car is detonating,...stop driving it,...have it towed to dealership asap.

[regal]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

The engine would have never gotten 200 hp without DI and the Toyota tuning the compression higher, would've been closer to 160 hp, if it hadn't put DI it wouldn't be a very good selling point or power from a power standpoint.

I think they would have been better off leaving this engine at 150 hp without DI, a normal compression ratio without a torque dip. The money saved could have been spent on a forged bottom end.. For daily driveability the extra 50 hp at the top end really doesn't help the car (the torque dip is a disappointment.) I know people are turboing and supercharging this engine now but if they had kept it port injection only without the high compression ratio the engine would have been able to handle more boost.

But if the FA20 proves reliable I guess the gas savings is worth the DI complexity over a couple hundred thousand miles of ownership. No I am not impressed by Steve McQeen's 20psi, how long did you drive the car without a tune?

It is a shame the stock engine requires premium gas, compared to other cars it is almost embarrassing to feed this car premium. Probably the slowest car on the market that requires premium.

But its all worth it the thing drives and handles like a dream, that is more important to me than power as long as the engine proves reliable and long lasting.

But with data like this I am skeptical without a tune:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=357

[Mikem53]

Well... I think we can all take comfort in knowing you didn't have any say in the development of this car!!
With your ideas.. It wouldn't be a sports car or even a modern car!
But it would be slow and steady.. Use regular gas and save money..
Last forever... Or maybe it would just feel that way...

I'll take all the quirks, noises, torque dip (which really isn't an issue but looks worse than it is on paper) and premium fuel to get that instant throttle response out of these flat 2 litres.. DI makes this engine fit the character of the car..
Makes me wonder why some people buy this car when they bitch about having to use premium gas in a sports car..
Long live the FA20.... And all its quirkiness...

Originally Posted by regal

I think they would have been better off leaving this engine at 150 hp without DI, a normal compression ratio without a torque dip. The money saved could have been spent on a forged bottom end.. For daily driveability the extra 50 hp at the top end really doesn't help the car (the torque dip is a disappointment.) I know people are turboing and supercharging this engine now but if they had kept it port injection only without the high compression ratio the engine would have been able to handle more boost.

But if the FA20 proves reliable I guess the gas savings is worth the DI complexity over a couple hundred thousand miles of ownership. No I am not impressed by Steve McQeen's 20psi, how long did you drive the car without a tune?

It is a shame the stock engine requires premium gas, compared to other cars it is almost embarrassing to feed this car premium. Probably the slowest car on the market that requires premium.

But its all worth it the thing drives and handles like a dream, that is more important to me than power as long as the engine proves reliable and long lasting.

But with data like this I am skeptical without a tune:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=357

[thill]

It will cost me $75 a year more to use premium gas vs regular. If you cannot afford premium gas you should not be driving this car. Used Prius or Camry? Then you get that Toyota engine you crave, and better gas mileage on regular fuel which seems to be a priority..

[KevinBRZ]

Originally Posted by thill

If it is a 100% failure rate and a safety issue as the OP claims I would expect massive lawsuits and full engine recall.

OP, my advice is to sell your car ASAP and get something reliable lke a Camry.

I didn't read anything about safety issues, and some bad spark plugs or injectors in 2 cars are not going to start massive lawsuits or engine recalls. Seriously, let's think before we post.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by KevinBRZ

I didn't read anything about safety issues, and some bad spark plugs or injectors in 2 cars are not going to start massive lawsuits or engine recalls. Seriously, let's think before we post.

Ever heard of sarcasm?

[cf6mech]

Originally Posted by regal

I think they would have been better off leaving this engine at 150 hp without DI, a normal compression ratio without a torque dip. The money saved could have been spent on a forged bottom end.. For daily driveability the extra 50 hp at the top end really doesn't help the car (the torque dip is a disappointment.) I know people are turboing and supercharging this engine now but if they had kept it port injection only without the high compression ratio the engine would have been able to handle more boost.

But if the FA20 proves reliable I guess the gas savings is worth the DI complexity over a couple hundred thousand miles of ownership. No I am not impressed by Steve McQeen's 20psi, how long did you drive the car without a tune?

It is a shame the stock engine requires premium gas, compared to other cars it is almost embarrassing to feed this car premium. Probably the slowest car on the market that requires premium.

But its all worth it the thing drives and handles like a dream, that is more important to me than power as long as the engine proves reliable and long lasting.

But with data like this I am skeptical without a tune:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=357

DI is the way of the future, it is run now in almost all race car applications,..you would not have the responsiveness and would be very disappointed in the FRS/BRZ if it did not have DI. if there was a car out there that tested the seals of the DI to the point I did I would like to hear about it,....I think some guys either don't know what detonation is or got crappy tunes and continued to drive their cars.....it dets you park it,(IMMEDIATELY)...don't make silly utube videos of it. it will destroy parts quickly. my car had zero detonation,....Ijust found the limits of the OEM rod bearing and I had my shop pull the DI's for shits and giggles and to do some preventative maintenance,,....none was needed with my seals. They are the same as they were installed...100% fine. there are other more important fish to fry on this engine than these so called faulty seals.

[ft_sjo]

@cf6mech In all fairness chap, you don't seem to understand what the type of detonation this issue is relating to.

[Diode Dynamics]

Originally Posted by ft_sjo

@cf6mech In all fairness chap, you don't seem to understand what the type of detonation this issue is relating to.

Wikipedia is a great place to start! lol I feel like a lot of members on auto forums copy/paste from wiki and claim it as their own knowledge. Nothing wrong with finding the facts though, at least your researching and trying to learn.

I have to agree with the person who posted saying DI is the way of the future, it's going to become more common. Especially when the CAFE standards get even more strict.

-Nick C.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Diode Dynamics

I have to agree with the person who posted saying DI is the way of the future, it's going to become more common. Especially when the CAFE standards get even more strict.

-Nick C.

This is correct the FA20 was designed to meet standards beyond Cafe going 5 years out. , but my fear is history repeating itself. Just like the mid 70's when cars reliability went south due to the emission standards, the consumers paid the price.

And Cf6 how log did you drive your car with te factory tune? couple hundred miles ? I'm being reported that cars with as much as 10psi boost on pump gas with a good tune have less knock correction than a stock car with the factory tune.

[thill]

Cafe standards are going to change the sports car segment as we know it today. The only way to meet the standards is to do what Toyota and Subaru did. Lighter care with engines that have less output. The days of the V8 muscle cars are most likely numbered.

[regal]

Originally Posted by thill

Cafe standards are going to change the sports car segment as we know it today. The only way to meet the standards is to do what Toyota and Subaru did. Lighter care with engines that have less output. The days of the V8 muscle cars are most likely numbered.

I agree 100%, the twins are first adopers. I mean who would have though a dual port/DI inected open 2L boxer 7400 rpm Subaru boxer ? Its as unproven and new as a DI Wankel. We are far from discovering its faults (all engines have them.) But the number one maor engine failure as it stands today has to be the O-rings, what will it be in 60k miles ? These are the things we owners need to uncover and remedy rather than relying on the OEM like lemmings.

This is a good read about Subaru tuning, note that this ECU has the same issue of closed loop delay that leads to the WRX detonation/ringland issues:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=30418&page=2

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by regal

I'm being reported that cars with as much as 10psi boost on pump gas with a good tune have less knock correction than a stock car with the factory tune.

That's telling.

Don't the WRX/STi owners also run aftermarket tunes because they get better economy, response, and power?

[empower-auto]

Originally Posted by pmdc

I don't think 2 rental cars being skullfucked on the 'ring is representative of all 86's.

Sitting in my shop laughing my ass off at this quote. The wording just killed me hahahahahahahahahaa